The Ultimate Vass (Footwear) Thread (Pictures, reviews, sizing, etc...)

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by luk-cha, Jul 24, 2009.

  1. Gdot

    Gdot Senior member

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    You are correct, except that in earlier usage of the Goodyear machine method they sill used the carved leather feather.
     


  2. Gdot

    Gdot Senior member

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    Completely agree!
     


  3. rikod

    rikod Senior member

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    Nice point
     


  4. hendrix

    hendrix Ill-proportioned

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    As much as I hate discussing it over and over, I think a big part of why "gemming" is so controversial is that people don't really understand what it is, and thus think the debate is over which method is better. There is no such debate. Simply put, goodyear welting is a type of cemented construction that enables for the presence of a welt by stitching it to a piece of canvas (gemming) that is glued to the insole. Handwelting is when the welt is stitched by hand to the insole, and does not rely on glue to hold the integrity of the shoe. One is better than the other, both in terms of durability and skill required; everyone who understands shoe construction accepts this.

    This doesn't mean that the "enlightened few" who understand the differences do or should feel obliged to only wear handwelted shoes. One must also accept that there is value in purchasing for aesthetic reasons. Noone should feel required to justify everything by durability or price:quality ratios. Good looking shoes are good looking shoes, and this is styleforum, after all.

    Also, thesis writing makes me want to have a massive debate on the internet...
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2013


  5. joiji

    joiji Senior member

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    I don't understand why there are dozens of people arguing the same point, when noone seems to be debating against them.
     


  6. hendrix

    hendrix Ill-proportioned

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    Wouldn't it be awesome if we could drag mafoofan into submitting a thesis on the topic?
     


  7. cbfn

    cbfn Senior member

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  8. Concordia

    Concordia Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Not to change the subject too much, but has anyone had occasion to look at or try on the P3 last? (There is a Londoner on eBay.) Supposedly it combines the P2 and 3636.
     


  9. Slewfoot

    Slewfoot Senior member

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    Just searched and saw them on eBay and am very curious as well.
     


  10. archangle13

    archangle13 Senior member

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    Question: TTS US 9D will fit what in the F last and U last?

    Under what circumstance would one take the same size in both F and U lasts?



    I find it interesting that few post pics with Vass shoes on their feet...
     


  11. rikod

    rikod Senior member

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    narrow feet ( I do take the same size)
     


  12. Xenon

    Xenon Senior member

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    You are completely correct here. The thing here however is that a leather too puff/heal stiffener is alot more work to install/properly and elegantly. Synthetic stiffeners are very thin and usually resin impregnated for quick heat forming during assembly. Leather versions need to be skived and coated and then planed to merge seemlessly to the lining so that you do not see a transition through the exterior leather. I am doing thisright now on a handmade shoe I am making and it is alot of time effort that adds up quickly in a factory even though the actual cost ofthat leather stiffener is probably less than synthetic version.
     


  13. Xenon

    Xenon Senior member

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    As Isshinryu101, mentioned the welt has always been leather. The welt is what you see when looking down at your shoes and the stitches you see connect the welt to the exterior bottom sole. This welt is stitched to the shoe upper and to either a holdfast which is integral to the inner sole or to a canvas rib which is glue to the inner sole. The holdfast is like a damn that is carved into the sole leather and can only ever be done properly by hand. In contrast in the original goodyear method (machine method) devised to save time and effort, the inner sole was scored vertically and horizontally near the edge such that a flap of leather could be raised perpindicular to the plane of the sole andto which the upper and welt would be stitched. Unfortuneately sole leather is stiff enoughthat the scoring had to be deep and this left very little substance connecting the leather flap to the sole. Infact tearing in this area was frequent and too try to correct this situation it became common practice to glue a canvas tape rienforcing the leather flap were the bending was most severe. It was just a smallstep from this to realize that you could do away woth the thicker leather inner sole and scoring and simply rely 100 percent on the glued tape whichyou would turn up thus becoming a rib (gemming). As suchyou are now relying on a glued connection which is in fact very similar in location to typical cement construction. This glue will often fail simply due to moisture from rain and perspiration, however keep in mind that with cement construction there usually is a wider glue joint vs the common thinner gemming and thus gemming is prone to quicker failure.

    If however you never wear your shoes in rain or snow and have very dry feet (perspire very little and usually have dryed cracked skin) then there is a high probability the the gemming will never fail (nor would the cement constructed shoe). If on the other hand you perspire alot then gemming is a virtual guarantee and this in more or less time.
     


  14. FrankCowperwood

    FrankCowperwood Senior member

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    Recently delivered oiled green calf Alt Wien on the New Peter last, single leather sole.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]


    Fit feels good right now. Ordered a 45 for my US11D-verging-on-E feet. Only issue I see right now is a roll in the leather on the instep right below the lacing area. I think you can see it in the photo below. Not sure what this means. Perhaps that my instep is a little high for the New Peter. Thoughts?

    [​IMG]
     


  15. mimo

    mimo Pernicious Enabler

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    This thread is becoming shoe nerd sex. I am enjoying it.

    But probably better get the subject back to Vass before the sound of worldwide facepalming becomes too deafening.

    Question: my feet are a little curved, and wide across the forefoot. I don't have a particularly high instep, but do find some oxfords tight over the ball of my foot. Anyway, do any of you Vass mega-customers have any suggestions on Vass lasts?
     


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