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The Ultimate Vass (Footwear) Thread (Pictures, reviews, sizing, etc...)

sforum1

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See that pic above? This is the orange box I mentioned earlier, wondering if it’s a different color or a faded red.
 

CrashBurner

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Question for all shoemakers: Why can't you relabel your sizes in the various lasts so that no matter what last they pick, the majority of people wear the same size regardless of the last?

I'm sure the answer is "oh, you don't get it, things are not as simple as they sound, every last is different, every foot is different, bluh, bluh, bluh". Basically the same answer you get regardless of the question and regardless of whether it's relevant to the question.

Me: "No, things are as simple as they sound. Even simpler. Probably a lot simpler."
it seems like you think the maker are intentionally make sizes confusing, so harder for them to sell shoes?
@sforum1 - I refer you to our previous footwear/maths conversation: the Lagrangian fitting formula; as you quite rightly pointed out, there is some wiggle room for error bringing us to the conclusion that the shoes will never fit.

678783E3-70C3-4F10-8687-5C149ACAB6EC.png
 

mimo

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shoemakers: "every last is different, every foot is different,". ...regardless of whether it's relevant.
Me: "No, things are as simple as they sound."
It's always relevant. I know Vass is particularly squirrely about sizing, just from their hand-making methods and QC. But in terms of the lasts themselves, I'm pretty sure they measure them carefully for size: I'd also take an educated guess that the heel to ball length of all their lasts is the same. But, we shoe-loving selfie-taking iGents love to wear shoes that don't fit right. So we'll size up (or down) in a shoe that doesn't fit, rather than take our actual size in a shoe that fits really well. What's the difference? Well, if you have straight pigeon toes, the U last probably feels generous in the correct size (size heel-ball), because your toes slip into that long triangular toe box with plenty of space, and your ball is where it should be in the shoe.

If your feet aren't that shape, you might try them a half or even full size up, and they feel fine, except to do that the ball of your foot is probably now a few mm behind the widest part of the shoe, and you'll notice a lot more deep creasing behind the toe box, perhaps also that the toe box is curling up a bit after a lot of wear, and even trip over a bit because the toe of the shoe is now proportionally long compared to your foot. But, it's only a few mm in most cases, and the shoes are pretty and we wear them and it's fine.

Now let's take the opposite, and say the guy with straighter, slender-toed feet who loves the U-last tries the 3636 or perhaps the Budapest, even the Banana, it's going to be weird. The ball is in the same place, but those long toes are now in a shorter toe box. That, really, is it. The 3636 is shorter overall than the U, yes, because it doesn't have that ostentatiously extended toe box, but the heel to ball may well be the same. The width, length, curve and direction of the foot and toes are going to vary. So in a way, yes it is that simple. Some lasts fit and some don't, but the size calculated by the maker may still have some logic to it.
 

Guccinski L.V.

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All true about the fit. However there is another small angle: the proportion. If one is used to seeing certain length of shoe appearing from under your trouser cuff then 3636 might need an up-sizing for that reason alone. Might not be a problem if your shoe size is >42, but for me , size 40.5 it is a must.
 

mimo

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I get you. I have a pair of Dinkelackers in shell that I love, but the short round toe box makes them look very little - and the triple sole exaggerates the effect. They stay strictly casual obviously, but definitely for narrower trousers.
 

Wrenkin

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All true about the fit. However there is another small angle: the proportion. If one is used to seeing certain length of shoe appearing from under your trouser cuff then 3636 might need an up-sizing for that reason alone. Might not be a problem if your shoe size is >42, but for me , size 40.5 it is a must.
I am normally a UK 7G and found the 41 in 3636 too big.
 

sforum1

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It's always relevant. I know Vass is particularly squirrely about sizing, just from their hand-making methods and QC. But in terms of the lasts themselves, I'm pretty sure they measure them carefully for size: I'd also take an educated guess that the heel to ball length of all their lasts is the same. But, we shoe-loving selfie-taking iGents love to wear shoes that don't fit right. So we'll size up (or down) in a shoe that doesn't fit, rather than take our actual size in a shoe that fits really well. What's the difference? Well, if you have straight pigeon toes, the U last probably feels generous in the correct size (size heel-ball), because your toes slip into that long triangular toe box with plenty of space, and your ball is where it should be in the shoe.

If your feet aren't that shape, you might try them a half or even full size up, and they feel fine, except to do that the ball of your foot is probably now a few mm behind the widest part of the shoe, and you'll notice a lot more deep creasing behind the toe box, perhaps also that the toe box is curling up a bit after a lot of wear, and even trip over a bit because the toe of the shoe is now proportionally long compared to your foot. But, it's only a few mm in most cases, and the shoes are pretty and we wear them and it's fine.

Now let's take the opposite, and say the guy with straighter, slender-toed feet who loves the U-last tries the 3636 or perhaps the Budapest, even the Banana, it's going to be weird. The ball is in the same place, but those long toes are now in a shorter toe box. That, really, is it. The 3636 is shorter overall than the U, yes, because it doesn't have that ostentatiously extended toe box, but the heel to ball may well be the same. The width, length, curve and direction of the foot and toes are going to vary. So in a way, yes it is that simple. Some lasts fit and some don't, but the size calculated by the maker may still have some logic to it.
My point was a lot simpler than that. I was simply saying that if they know it to be a fact that 99% of the people have to go half or a full size up on the U last, so people who normally wear 43 in other brands, including say their own F last, have to go to 44 on the U last, why don't they take their U-last 44 and rename it 43? This way a guy who's normally 43 is also a 43 in Vass, regardless of the last.

As to why they thought it should be 44 but it ended up not fitting like a 44 but more like a 43, that I don't need to know. The size on any shoe should tell us the size of a foot that can fit in that shoe, not a measurement from point A to point B on the shoe. If an average 44 foot cannot fit in a shoe labeled as 44, then that shoe is not a 44. Period.
 
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ajd578

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My point was a lot simpler than that. I was simply saying that if they know it to be a fact that 99% of the people have to go half or a full size up on the U last, so people who normally wear 43 in other brands, including say their own F last, have to go to 44 on the U last, why don't they take their U-last 44 and rename it 43? This way a guy who's normally 43 is also a 43 in Vass, regardless of the last.

As to why they thought it should be 44 but it ended up not fitting like a 44 but more like a 43, that I don't need to know. The size on any shoe should tell us the size of a foot that can fit in that shoe, not a measurement from point A to point B on the shoe. If an average 44 foot cannot fit in a shoe labeled as 44, then that shoe is not a 44. Period.
I agree with mimo. The correct size is heel to ball. Sizing up (for U) or down (as I've seen for P2) to accommodate toes or width is not the way to fit shoes. If the majority of people can't fit a shoe that is the correct heel ball length, the problem is not the labelling.
 

aj2603

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Hey, I need some size advice.

I am a size 44 in the Vass F last. and Size UK 10 in Carmina's Rain last.

Do i got with the same size for in the Vass K last and Vass U last.

PS: I have slightly wide feet.
 

sforum1

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hey, I heard that Vass shoes can also ship in brown boxes. Hmmm. Could this be true or are those fake Vass?

Speaking of fake Vass, solve this:

What's the difference between real and fake Vass?

The fake Vass actually fit.
 

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