The Ultimate Vass (Footwear) Thread (Pictures, reviews, sizing, etc...)

[RogerP]

Any input on construction? Across all 4 horsemen ...

Alan

Vass holds the largely notional advantage of hand welting, but beyond that, in terms of quality of materials and quality of construction the other three are a notch above and it would probably be an exercise in hair-splitting to differentiate between them.

 

[benjamin831]

Vass' construction and finish is "rustic." Typical of Austro Hungarian shoemaking.

 

[Notch]

The Valways don't seem like F last to me, rather K. Just a guess.

With regards to the comparison, Vass shoes are handwelted which I like for the craftsmanship. Other than that, I'd say the G&G will have a higher level of finishing and probably higher leather quality than he others.

 

[Jamesbond1]

I'm with you on the sickness of this pair. Posted by Vass on Instagram. I don't recall the deets (or if any were posted) but they are plain toe Valways, black grain over black calf that has been given the full Italian polish (that bit I asked about). Looks like F last on a tapered double leather sole. I'd replicate these as is in a heartbeat for my next MTO.

And so would I!!
Thank you,

 

[Alan Bee]

Thank you gentlemen for all your contributions (across all threads GG, EG, AC and Vass).

See, I'm trying to force a conversation that goes beyond aesthetics and cosmetics. The resounding chorus in defense of Vass seems to me that it is "Hand Welted'. I think it was @TtownMD or @RogerP who made the argument (which I thought was useful) that other the high-end Goodyear welted shoes could be re-crafted just as many times as a hand-welted shoe obviating that advantage.

For those of us who aren't (shoe) technicians, what then is the advantage Vass holds over its peers? Do they wear better or walk better? Are they more comfortable etc. Or does it all come down to the rustic AH tradition and feel of Vass?

In terms of leather, it appears unanimous to me (from the feedback) that Vass is a distant second to all the other three contenders (EG, GG, AC).

I often feel as though folks swallow the "hand welted" bait and buy into it without fully understanding what advantages (if any) they confer.

Alan Bee

 

[WhyUEarly]

It's hard for me to objectively verify, but supposedly handwelted shoes can be more flexible since there is no canvas gemming.

For me, I like Vass because the lasts are basically the best RTW fits I've tried. Now, I also really like the EG 82 last but I don't love it for twice the price. For my daily needs walking in Manhattan, a tough and well made Vass is perfectly suited for me. If I am in the mood for a impeccably executed shoe, I find my Meccariello shoes to do the job, which I want to add, also has the nice insole and outsole thickness I prefer.

I would like to, but have not had an opportunity to try GG yet. I think GG has a unique aesthetic worth paying for, but pricing is bit of a barrier.

I guess it really comes down to your personal preferences. I think the fit of the last and your lifestyle are the biggest factor. For me, Vass make for practical shoes. I don't mind imperfect stitching and don't care about fiddleback waists when I'm walking through dirty streets in a suit most of the week. Any shoe I wear that is more expensive than Vass would be purely for aesthetic reasons.

 

[Alan Bee]

It's hard for me to objectively verify, but supposedly handwelted shoes can be more flexible since there is no canvas gemming.

For me, I like Vass because the lasts are basically the best RTW fits I've tried. Now, I also really like the EG 82 last but I don't love it for twice the price. For my daily needs walking in Manhattan, a tough and well made Vass is perfectly suited for me. If I am in the mood for a impeccably executed shoe, I find my Meccariello shoes to do the job, which I want to add, also has the nice insole and outsole thickness I prefer.

I would like to, but have not had an opportunity to try GG yet. I think GG has a unique aesthetic worth paying for, but pricing is bit of a barrier.

I guess it really comes down to your personal preferences. I think the fit of the last and your lifestyle are the biggest factor. For me, Vass make for practical shoes. I don't mind imperfect stitching and don't care about fiddleback waists when I'm walking through dirty streets in a suit most of the week. Any shoe I wear that is more expensive than Vass would be purely for aesthetic reasons.

Regarding your opening statement, Strange then that @TtownMD finds them (Vass) very stiff.

I have to say I find the sole quite hard and stiff as well (though mine are hardly broken in) compared to the other pairs on offer above.

Your preference on the basis of fit and sturdiness, both very practical considerations, are very legitimate (at least for your own purposes).

Alan Bee

 

[RogerP]

For those of us who aren't (shoe) technicians, what then is the advantage Vass holds over its peers? Do they wear better or walk better? Are they more comfortable etc. Or does it all come down to the rustic AH tradition and feel of Vass?

I think the question itself as posed here obscures the answer. Vass isn't a peer of AC / EG / G&G. If you're looking for hand-welted peers of that Goodyear welted trio, look to Antonio Meccariello; St. Crispin's, and arguably, Paolo Scaforra.

Vass is significantly less costly than the representatives of your original comparison group - which IS the advantage it holds over the others (along with far greater ease of MTO and customization without knowing a guy who knows a guy or being willing to pay through the nose). I'm not sure it's reasonable to expect a significantly less costly product to hold advantages in quality / construction / materials.

 

[WhyUEarly]

Regarding your opening statement, Strange then that @TtownMD finds them (Vass) very stiff.

I have to say I find the sole quite hard and stiff as well (though mine are hardly broken in) compared to the other pairs on offer above.

Your preference on the basis of fit and sturdiness, both very practical considerations, are very legitimate (at least for your own purposes).

Alan Bee

I think the matter of stiffness is one of those all other things being equal, handwelted could be more flexible, but other factors such as pattern, sole thickness, upper tannage contribute to stiffness. That said, yes Vass shoes are robust, but I never had to break in Vass shoes for them to be comfortable. I've had 0 blisters or hot spots which I attribute to good fit for my feet.

I think the question itself as posed here obscures the answer. Vass isn't a peer of AC / EG / G&G. If you're looking for hand-welted peers of that Goodyear welted trio, look to Antonio Meccariello; St. Crispin's, and arguably, Paolo Scaforra.

Vass is significantly less costly than the representatives of your original comparison group - which IS the advantage it holds over the others (along with far greater ease of MTO and customization without knowing a guy who knows a guy or being willing to pay through the nose). I'm not sure it's reasonable to expect a significantly less costly product to hold advantages in quality / construction / materials.

I think you hit the nail on the head.

 

[Encore]

.... Saw some good deals on Vass and thinking this is the time I should start my journey with Vass!

I asked similar sizing question maybe a year ago but I cannot find it any more, so forgive me for asking again...

I am in general a wide feet, I have experience in below:
JL:
8000 8E too narrow, can't wear (specially on my pinky toe)
7000 8E narrow
GG:
GG06 8E narrow
EG:
202 7.5F just a bit narrow
CJ:
341 8E too narrow, can't wear
335 7.5E boots/ 325 7.5E loafer both are just a little bit narrow.

I just placed an order on the 42 on P2 last... but now I am a bit worried if I should go for 41.5. Would anyone know if 41.5 or 42 would fit me better?

 

[bdavro23]

Thank you gentlemen for all your contributions (across all threads GG, EG, AC and Vass).

See, I'm trying to force a conversation that goes beyond aesthetics and cosmetics. The resounding chorus in defense of Vass seems to me that it is "Hand Welted'. I think it was @TtownMD or @RogerP who made the argument (which I thought was useful) that other the high-end Goodyear welted shoes could be re-crafted just as many times as a hand-welted shoe obviating that advantage.

For those of us who aren't (shoe) technicians, what then is the advantage Vass holds over its peers? Do they wear better or walk better? Are they more comfortable etc. Or does it all come down to the rustic AH tradition and feel of Vass?

In terms of leather, it appears unanimous to me (from the feedback) that Vass is a distant second to all the other three contenders (EG, GG, AC).

I often feel as though folks swallow the "hand welted" bait and buy into it without fully understanding what advantages (if any) they confer.

Alan Bee

I dont really think that there is an argument to be made that Goodyear welting is the equivalent of handwelting. It simply isnt. You cant escape the fact that an EG, GG, etc, are constructed in the same manner as an Allen Edmonds shoe. Yes, the materials are much better and the skill of the workers is higher, but largely the methods are the same and it involves a glued strip of gemming holding the shoe together. Whether or not that matters to you is a personal decision.

By and large, a handwelted shoe will have a much thicker insole made of high quality leather which will form to your foot over time. I find this to increase the comfort of the shoe significantly, but again, this is personal preference. Typically, GYW shoes employee much thinner insoles or leatherboard in lower quality shoes. I wouldnt expect to see leatherboard in the shoes you posted, but I dont have first hand experience.

In terms of "bait" as you call it, the same could be said for people paying $1,500 for shoes that are GYW without fully understanding what that means either. You are comparing Vass at $5-600 that are handwelted against shoes that are machine made but cost 3-5 times more and yet the Vass dont look that far off. I dont know that I would be happy with that diminished rate of return, but again, a personal choice.

As for the sole stiffness, I can tell you they will soften up considerably. I have a dozen pair of Vass, most with double soles and they become very pliable in reasonably short order.

 

[gte872h]

I’d like to add something to the conversation which is rarely discussed. I think it can help in terms of the stiffness and personal preference issue somewhat. At least from my perspective. I’m not a small person. I probably have a build closer to what the Eastern European shoemakers had in mind while developing the Budepester type models with thick robust double soles, etc. Single leather soles do not work well for my comfort level at all. A double sole is great for me straight away. My assumption is that a lot of the folks who have issues with Vass’ stiffness may not be that large or weigh on the bigger end of the spectrum.

 

[RogerP]

Meermin is constructed in the same way as St. Crispin's. Both hand welted. They are not remotely equivalent. Neither are Allen Edmonds remotely equivalent to Gaziano and Girling. To suggest as much is utterly preposterous.

 

[bdavro23]

Meermin is constructed in the same way as St. Crispin's. Both hand welted. They are not remotely equivalent. Neither are Allen Edmonds remotely equivalent to Gaziano and Girling. To suggest as much is utterly preposterous.

If this is in reference to my post, I dont see where I suggested there was equivalency, only that the methods were roughly the same.

To read my post and come away thinking I'm suggesting that Allen Edmonds and GG are the same is utterly preposterous.

 

[zr3rs]

CJ:
341 8E too narrow, can't wear
335 7.5E boots/ 325 7.5E loafer both are just a little bit narrow.

I just placed an order on the 42 on P2 last... but now I am a bit worried if I should go for 41.5. Would anyone know if 41.5 or 42 would fit me better?

I am uk8 in cj 341 (loafer) and 42 in p2, with a wide forefoot. They are both snug fit. I can also wear 42.5 in P2, so I guess you should be fine in 42.