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induere_to

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Today's Slaughter.

9E7BBAD9-EEE9-446B-AD0E-89C96A969A44.jpeg


I’m going hold off on finishing my former deconstruction post due to some pretty fresh open wounds that may need a couple of weeks to heal properly. I posted it on Instagram, an I may decide to leave it at that, but, we’ll see what the future holds.

91F47AA1-3396-41BE-9BDB-55A7C03FDDC1.jpeg


Back in the day, when I knew nothing but began to become curious, Zegna seemed to be a name that just kept popping up everywhere (Hugo Boss, was another, but that Historical research didn't result into much of a positive dive...). Anwyays, I looked Zegna up on Wikipedia, which seemed to have a lot of great things to say over a decade ago... but mostly about its fabrics. I don't remember nor know much about the company, but it seems to now be a company that buys brands that may have been better off prior to having their new owner.

E6F27D28-9891-423B-9381-238ED0C75905.jpeg


1E8BEF17-090D-4BB4-8AE5-56C0EB23307C.jpeg


All finishings were done by machine. Buttonholes, edge stitching, collar attachment, etc..

90CFE9B9-C8F8-465F-9FFE-8E87A0DB0816.jpeg


This garment was tough to judge based on several qualities, because it had two previous owners. The most recent owner, had an adjustment made to lengthen the sleeves and had the waste taken in at the side body seam (this is mildly important to know, because the sleeve inseam matched the side body seam, which is quite unusual, though not entirely unheard of. I didn't figure out about the alteration until I had opened the jacket and looked beneath the lining. Additionally, Zegna alternatively cuts their top and bottom sleeves almost the same width; most tailoring companies commonly cut the top sleeve wider.)

The lining hem and sleeve felling at the armhole were hand-stitched, unfortunately, due to the alterations that had been done before receive it, I have no way of telling whether or not this was original. Below, you can see where the machine stitch transitions into a hand-stitch that would have been done due to alterations:

BAF60799-D493-4A56-B37B-8C15468A3463.jpeg


396B5984-2006-4958-89CE-4CBFF85FC94B.jpeg


Armhole construction. Sleeve was basted in by hand, as were the many layers that contribute to the shoulder construction, but each layer was all finished by machine.

40848C2E-8C6A-44D7-B615-A3AC200104DB.jpeg


At the top, you can see the bastes from hanging the sleeves by hand. Along each of the sleeve seams, there are remnants that the sleeve lining was once attached to the sleeve, I'm presuming the lining was removed by an alterationist.

970D681B-989D-4B54-B540-96F376515D75.jpeg


E. Zegna sleeve:

BCD6312B-74FE-4013-A4F5-BC4973EFF75A.jpeg


The demolished armhole:

B6C0AA73-9D24-479D-851D-1701EFE77820.jpeg


The former owner of this jacket didn't say anything about needing to adjust the collar. The collar edges are always turned back by hand, but this only takes a couple of minutes, and doesn't add anything to the overall quality of the garment. However, it's apparent that the collar was attached by machine originally, but must have been removed at one point maybe for a squared shoulder adjustment. Makes me wonder for those of you that buy secondhand, do you ever ask sellers about alteration history?

2734085C-3E9D-4640-9288-B7C98D5715C8.jpeg


The shoulder is raised, which I always enjoy seeing. It's much stronger than an open seam, and this shoulder seam is fortified with edge tape. There is only evidence of prick stitching along the edge of the lapel and the lining, I like seeing it attach the raised seam, seals it more in place. The back of the shoulder seam is reinforced with silesia, which is a lightweight cloth used for pocketing.

AF3FED73-8E89-4EEE-B8E5-E6804EFE833B.jpeg


One thing I have not seen before, though I find rather intriguing is this floating reinforcment throughout the waist. Same as the back of the shoulder, this floating fabric is also silesia. My presumption is that they did this to prevent of the soft, flexibility of the wool/cashmere fabric to stretch.

7C0E3784-17DB-4430-97C1-FF178A2CDBA3.jpeg


Similar to the Attolini, the canvas is all constructed by machine, but at least the canvas runs throughout the lapel and has a sturdy bridle that runs directly into the fastening button.

866B8B7B-1681-4EC6-BED5-CC14E070F9CB.jpeg


0C15F56B-F039-4F25-B23B-EDFA03FDEF24.jpeg


The dart construction was fused at zero, with self fabric on bias stitched to the dart. This prevents any puckering at the top of the dart which would be seen on the front of the jacket.

19C0B546-A5DB-442B-B3C0-C4A2165618CC.jpeg


Overall, it's an entirely machine-made garment. It's a nice fabric and it has been minimally fused. I know that Zegna has many tiers of offerings, and that makes me hesitant to approach anything of lower quality than this, but I'd definitely be interested in checking out something of a higher tier, if one exists. This construction isn't terrible, but there wasn't much that impressed me either. The only fusing I can see is at the cran of the lapel and at the bottom corner of the quarters, which is normal as these areas of the jacket need the most durability. In all honesty, this garment is exactly what I would expect from a rtw brand that advertises 'full canvas' and 'made in Europe' and doesn't mention anything about being 'fatto a mano'. No misleading advertisement, which I respect; but lacks a bit more in what could be exciting aesthetic details.

I feel like I might need to explain that just like most companies, this one garment may have been made differently from other Ermenegildo Zegna garments that have been made throughout the extensive history and different eras the brand has contributed to. All brands change manufacturing cultures constantly and there are always different production methods being executed.

7413B259-ABEB-4DEC-BD9E-13A01F3BE237.jpeg


I'm not sure going forward, if there are certain things I should be highlighting in these posts, but if you have questions or suggestions, feel free to let me know. I have several other garments on the way, some with pretty high reputations, so I'm pretty excited to tear into them when I get the chance. For me, this is fun. It’s educational. Teaches me a lot about manufacturing and production and can provide great ideas I can try out for myself or just reassure me that I’ve been learning the right things all along. I’m blessed to work alongside people that have both worked in garment assembly lines and factories and also on savile row. We look at a lot of this stuff together and discuss the processes and try to understand the different techniques and ideas. These posts are just summaries of much more thorough discussions that we have everyday at the studio.
 
Last edited:

BlueSteel

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Messages
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Today's Slaughter.

View attachment 1922765

I’m going hold off on finishing my former deconstruction post due to some pretty fresh open wounds that may need a couple of weeks to heal properly. I posted it on Instagram, an I may decide to leave it at that, but, we’ll see what the future holds.

View attachment 1922857

Back in the day, when I knew nothing but began to become curious, Zegna seemed to be a name that just kept popping up everywhere (Hugo Boss, was another, but that Historical research didn't result into much of a positive dive...). Anwyays, I looked Zegna up on Wikipedia, which seemed to have a lot of great things to say over a decade ago... but mostly about its fabrics. I don't remember nor know much about the company, but it seems to now be a company that buys brands that may have been better off prior to having their new owner.

View attachment 1922807

View attachment 1922767

All finishings were done by machine. Buttonholes, edge stitching, collar attachment, etc..

View attachment 1922769

This garment was tough to judge based on several qualities, because it had two previous owners. The most recent owner, had an adjustment made to lengthen the sleeves and had the waste taken in at the side body seam (this is mildly important to know, because the sleeve inseam matched the side body seam, which is quite unusual, though not entirely unheard of. I didn't figure out about the alteration until I had opened the jacket and looked beneath the lining. Additionally, Zegna alternatively cuts their top and bottom sleeves almost the same width; most tailoring companies commonly cut the top sleeve wider.)

The lining hem and sleeve felling at the armhole were hand-stitched, unfortunately, due to the alterations that had been done before receive it, I have no way of telling whether or not this was original. Below, you can see where the machine stitch transitions into a hand-stitch that would have been done due to alterations:

View attachment 1922771

View attachment 1922775

Armhole construction. Sleeve was basted in by hand, as were the many layers that contribute to the shoulder construction, but each layer was all finished by machine.

View attachment 1922779

At the top, you can see the bastes from hanging the sleeves by hand. Along each of the sleeve seams, there are remnants that the sleeve lining was once attached to the sleeve, I'm presuming the lining was removed by an alterationist.

View attachment 1922781

E. Zegna sleeve:

View attachment 1922783

The demolished armhole:

View attachment 1922785

The former owner of this jacket didn't say anything about needing to adjust the collar. The collar edges are always turned back by hand, but this only takes a couple of minutes, and doesn't add anything to the overall quality of the garment. However, it's apparent that the collar was attached by machine originally, but must have been removed at one point maybe for a squared shoulder adjustment. Makes me wonder for those of you that buy secondhand, do you ever ask sellers about alteration history?

View attachment 1922789

The shoulder is raised, which I always enjoy seeing. It's much stronger than an open seam, and this shoulder seam is fortified with edge tape. There is only evidence of prick stitching along the edge of the lapel and the lining, I like seeing it attach the raised seam, seals it more in place. The back of the shoulder seam is reinforced with silesia, which is a lightweight cloth used for pocketing.

View attachment 1922791

One thing I have not seen before, though I find rather intriguing is this floating reinforcment throughout the waist. Same as the back of the shoulder, this floating fabric is also silesia. My presumption is that they did this to prevent of the soft, flexibility of the wool/cashmere fabric to stretch.

View attachment 1922793

Similar to the Attolini, the canvas is all constructed by machine, but at least the canvas runs throughout the lapel and has a sturdy bridle that runs directly into the fastening button.

View attachment 1922795

View attachment 1922799

The dart construction was fused at zero, with self fabric on bias stitched to the dart. This prevents any puckering at the top of the dart which would be seen on the front of the jacket.

View attachment 1922801

Overall, it's an entirely machine-made garment. It's a nice fabric and it has been minimally fused. I know that Zegna has many tiers of offerings, and that makes me hesitant to approach anything of lower quality than this, but I'd definitely be interested in checking out something of a higher tier, if one exists. This construction isn't terrible, but there wasn't much that impressed me either. The only fusing I can see is at the cran of the lapel and at the bottom corner of the quarters, which is normal as these areas of the jacket need the most durability. In all honesty, this garment is exactly what I would expect from a rtw brand that advertises 'full canvas' and 'made in Europe' and doesn't mention anything about being 'fatto a mano'. No misleading advertisement, which I respect; but lacks a bit more in what could be exciting aesthetic details.

I feel like I might need to explain that just like most companies, this one garment may have been made differently from other Ermenegildo Zegna garments that have been made throughout the extensive history and different eras the brand has contributed to. All brands change manufacturing cultures constantly and there are always different production methods being executed.

View attachment 1922797

I'm not sure going forward, if there are certain things I should be highlighting in these posts, but if you have questions or suggestions, feel free to let me know. I have several other garments on the way, some with pretty high reputations, so I'm pretty excited to tear into them when I get the chance. For me, this is fun. It’s educational. Teaches me a lot about manufacturing and production and can provide great ideas I can try out for myself or just reassure me that I’ve been learning the right things all along. I’m blessed to work alongside people that have both worked in garment assembly lines and factories and also on savile row. We look at a lot of this stuff together and discuss the processes and try to understand the different techniques and ideas. These posts are just summaries of much more thorough discussions that we have everyday at the studio.

Believe it or not, these Swiss-made Zegna jackets retailed for $3000+ CDN (and currently retail over $4000 CDN) from stores like Saks 5th Ave.

But they were frequently and heavily discounted. I bought 2 for myself about 5 years ago from a clearance at a Saks Off 5th Outlet in Canada for $149 CDN each.

I'm thrilled with the ones I bought for $149 CDN. Would never touch them for anywhere close to full retail.

There purports to be a higher end line called Zegna "Couture", which is made in Italy. Just saw one such Zegna Couture jacket on a retailer site that boasted "Handmade"...no clue to what extent that might be so...
 

othertravel

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Believe it or not, these Swiss-made Zegna jackets retailed for $3000+ CDN (and currently retail over $4000 CDN) from stores like Saks 5th Ave.

But they were frequently and heavily discounted. I bought 2 for myself about 5 years ago from a clearance at a Saks Off 5th Outlet in Canada for $149 CDN each.

I'm thrilled with the ones I bought for $149 CDN. Would never touch them for anywhere close to full retail.

There purports to be a higher end line called Zegna "Couture", which is made in Italy. Just saw one such Zegna Couture jacket on a retailer site that boasted "Handmade"...no clue to what extent that might be so...
The Couture line is pretty nice, and there are hand-made details that are apparent externally (hand-sewn buttonholes, collar, flap pocket, etc...). But I've never opened one up - @induere_to would be better qualified to look at that.

Zegna also owns the licence for Tom Ford suits. Although Tom Ford suits are priced at Zegna Couture levels, the construction is actually closer to Zegna Mainline. That said, you can get a Tom Ford suit made to Zegna Couture specs for a 50% upcharge.

The economics of it is interesting. I guess for Zegna to make money on Tom Ford tailoring, they have to include a significant markup on TF items to cover the licence cost.
 

JohnMRobie

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The Couture line is pretty nice, and there are hand-made details that are apparent externally (hand-sewn buttonholes, collar, flap pocket, etc...). But I've never opened one up - @induere_to would be better qualified to look at that.

Zegna also owns the licence for Tom Ford suits. Although Tom Ford suits are priced at Zegna Couture levels, the construction is actually closer to Zegna Mainline. That said, you can get a Tom Ford suit made to Zegna Couture specs for a 50% upcharge.

The economics of it is interesting. I guess for Zegna to make money on Tom Ford tailoring, they have to include a significant markup on TF items to cover the licence cost.
JeffreyD inspected one ages ago but I don’t think he was able to cut it apart - It’s interesting to see some of the similarities he noted in the Couture jacket as the one @induere_to dissected - specifically the silesia reinforcements.

He did dissect a Tom Ford. The Couture one would be interesting since I don’t think anyone’s done it since their Padua factory closed in 2015 that had been making them. Same for Tom Ford which had been made in that factory.
 

othertravel

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Based on this pic, can anybody tell if the lining is sewn by hand?

1D401648-DE28-4AF9-84B6-FF9F3EA49D4C.jpeg
 
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For those who want to swing by Nordstrom Eaton centre, SuitSupply is already closed. I was told that other brands like Canali are having 5-20% off, depending on the item. You will need to grab the thing you want and check the price at the cashier. I do not think it is worth going, maybe wait for their liquidation sale.
 

partenopean

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They are just ceasing operations in Canada, right?
So wouldn't they just move all their high-margin (i.e. worthwhile) stuff to US stores and/or their online shipping warehouses in the US?

This isn't like a stand-alone carpet importer shutting down. no 10k Kilims or Tabrizis discounted to 500.
ie. no one is going to get killed in the stampede, indulging in the thrill of the chase...

Just the thrill of going to see another brick-and-morter store as it bites the dust
 

othertravel

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I stopped by the Via Cavour outlet last week. If it's still open, you should check it out. Stile Latino suits and sport coats for about $1k, and Cucinelli ties for under $100. They also had some nice Barba Napoli sport coats for about $500 (fully canvassed).
 

Ranjeev

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Good info. Any recollection on selection of sizing for bigger guys? Thanks.
 

partenopean

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I stopped by the Via Cavour outlet last week. If it's still open, you should check it out. Stile Latino suits and sport coats for about $1k, and Cucinelli ties for under $100. They also had some nice Barba Napoli sport coats for about $500 (fully canvassed).

Has anybody vivisected a Cucinelli tie yet, to see how much glue, tape and/or filler there is?
 

KaleidoscopicK

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They are just ceasing operations in Canada, right?
So wouldn't they just move all their high-margin (i.e. worthwhile) stuff to US stores and/or their online shipping warehouses in the US?

This isn't like a stand-alone carpet importer shutting down. no 10k Kilims or Tabrizis discounted to 500.
ie. no one is going to get killed in the stampede, indulging in the thrill of the chase...

Just the thrill of going to see another brick-and-morter store as it bites the dust

Yeah, just Canada. Anything where it's in a leased space would most likely be taken back by the brand itself (since it was never Nordstrom's product in the first place), but the rest may be fair game. Though anything desirable enough would likely not make it to larger discount territory (ex. Common Projects Achilles lows).
 

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