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The Ultimate Toronto Thread

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by scatterbrain, Dec 29, 2014.

  1. Bill Dlwgosh

    Bill Dlwgosh Senior member

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    With shipping the total in my cart was $173US ... I haven't seen the credit card statement to know exactly what I spent after the exchange but I'm sure it was a good $220 CAD, add the $83 from DHL and these ties are a $300+ CAD investment which is too much.

    As an American though, with basically all of my money in US Dollars and mortgage rates dropping while the Greenback is going further and further, I have to say that this is shaping up to be a great time to be considering the purchase of my first home which would be in Brampton. So, maybe the perfect time to buy a house, even if an awful time to import neckties.

    Oh, and if the price of 2 ties basically doubles on account of shipping, duty, tax, exchange, fees etc I would hate to think what a couple pairs of good shoes might have added up to. Will definitely be buy my shoes from Jok.
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2015


  2. SirReveller

    SirReveller Senior member

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    Vass really intrigues me as a sturdy superpremo GY shoe in a really cool traditional design. (though they also more recently offer chisel toe, which apparently pissed off hard core longtime Vass people lol) On SF the traditional Vass look seems to be one of those real love-it or hate-it kinda things though.

    Leatherfoot is like 75% St. Crispins stock and my impression is that they love their MTO program for it more than even selling Lobb but at $1500 starting price for a MTO SC f/ Leatherfoot, Vass is the same level of crazy workmanship at a way better price. I quizzed Jok on this and he explained Vass doesn't do the SC hand dying burnishing as a last step and this is really the only price difference (euro vs Hungary too apparently is also a factor https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungary_and_the_euro).

    Plus Jok can add whatever little flourish you want re: the coloring of your Vass for way way less than the extra 7 or 800 buck extra a SC would have cost you! Lol

    Jok showed me this one in particular which I loved...bit too small though so I'll have to def do MTO with him some time
    [​IMG]
     


  3. RogerP

    RogerP Senior member

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    ^^^ What do you mean by "GY shoe"?
     


  4. SirReveller

    SirReveller Senior member

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  5. LEVOOSH

    LEVOOSH Senior member

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    FYI. Vass is handwelted not goodyear. So is Saint Crispins
     


  6. RogerP

    RogerP Senior member

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    Quote:Yes. And while Vass represents compelling value in a hand-welted shoe, they are not on par with St. Crispin's. And I say this as a huge fan (and multiple owner) of Vass.
     


  7. SirReveller

    SirReveller Senior member

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    Isn't it "hand welted goodyear construction"? Like a hand stitch of a GY? That was my take from other threads...
     


  8. SirReveller

    SirReveller Senior member

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    Now that's interesting. I thought they were Pepsi vs Coke but maybe it's more like AE (Vass) vs Alden (SC)....or would you say the diff is even more pronounced than that analogy?
     


  9. SirReveller

    SirReveller Senior member

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    n/m
    Mea culpa; had it wrong indeed

    Hand-welted construction is different both in technique and materials than Goodyear welted.

    Handwelted is, in my opinion (with over four decades of hands-on experience) superior to Goodyear welted for the simple reason that it is based on a leather to leather connection. Whereas Goodyear welted, as it is implemented today, relies on glue to hold a canvas or linen "holdfast" to a typically thinner or inferior insole.
     


  10. jokb

    jokb Senior member

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    I would say Vass compared to the $1500 shoe makers is, "You get a little for a lot more" quoted from one of our own. Some aspects of the shoe are comparable. and here in SF there have been many comparisons between St. C and Vass.

    One thing I haven't asked Vass yet is if they can source crust leather. If they can, I can finish the shoe like St. C does.

    GMTO or MTO is a good way to get the shoes.

     


  11. RogerP

    RogerP Senior member

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    Quote:No. Hand welted and goodyear welted are definitely not the same thing. Do a bit more research - there is a whole thread on the subject. ;-)
    Quote:Fair question but hard to quantify. Probably more like the difference between AE and Carmina, both in terms of differential in price and overall quality. And I say this not to disparage Vass in any way - they are excellent shoes. But St. C. is a definite step up the ladder. As is generally the case with premium RTW shoes, one pays increasingly higher premiums for more incremental advances in design and quality as one ascends the scale, and whether the cost is worth it is largely a subjective assessment by the individual buyer. But the differences are there.
     


  12. Nik Telford

    Nik Telford Senior member

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    @jokb do you mind elaborating on what exactly crust calf is and how it's different from regular calf?
     


  13. RogerP

    RogerP Senior member

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    Quote:I don't dispute, and never have disputed, the essential superiority of hand welted construction versus GYW. I do very much dispute the significance or degree of the qualitative and functional difference that some here (not you, and not saying who) attribute to the different construction methods. I have seen some wildly unsupported and truly laughable assertions advanced regarding the supposed perils of GYW construction that simply have no basis in reality.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2015


  14. jokb

    jokb Senior member

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    Crust leather is leather that is tanned but not finished. I haven't seen one in it's raw form yet but definitely love the chance to. From what I understand, some of St. C's shoes are crust leather and then hand finished with polishes. My 401 half boot is like this.

    Talking some sales guys from big menswear chains, I get the feeling that they promote GYW as the best. When I started in the shoe game years ago, I was led to believe this as well. From a normal person's point of view, they wouldn't really the difference and think they are the same. For me, one main difference is that GYW soles sticks out as that is the limitation of the machine.
    A good example is Allen Edmonds' park avenue. It's meant to be your traditional dress shoe but having the sole stick out that much gives it an air of being casual. just my $0.02.

    when the opportunity presents itself, I would love to go learn actual shoe making.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2015


  15. RogerP

    RogerP Senior member

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    Quote:There's ample marketing hype on both sides of the fence that the enthistast needs to sort out whether the subject is GYW versus hand welting or even RTW versus bespoke. No shortage of BS to step around, that's for sure. And yes, both the aesthetic and value assessment are down to the particular buyer. My overall recommendation has always been (as you also suggest) buy shoes that you love at whatever price point you can afford. There are worthwhile purchases and good values to be had all along the scale, not just at the very top.
     


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