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The Ultimate "HARDCORE" Shoe Porn Thread (Bespoke only)

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by luk-cha, Jul 3, 2010.

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  1. add911_11

    add911_11 Senior member

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    Haha mine is full lined insole, I requested it. I have heard you can also ask for full leather insole in RTW.
     
  2. add911_11

    add911_11 Senior member

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    the upper is actually hatch-grain, just bad camera sorry.
    The leather have been polished by them so it appears to be very smooth.
     
  3. add911_11

    add911_11 Senior member

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    thanks for those words, I now will ask the lack of pin-hole specifically for my next bespoke project.

    this is my first whole cut bespoke, I didn't realise the hole until you guys tell me.

    At the end, I am still very happy of the product, I now understand why they charge more than George Cleverley.
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2013
  4. add911_11

    add911_11 Senior member

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    a few more pictures
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2013
  5. poorsod

    poorsod Senior member

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    *sigh* This is from earlier in the SAME THREAD.
     
  6. add911_11

    add911_11 Senior member

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    I copied it from Gaz, I must confess that. However, I only hope he doesn't mind.
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2013
  7. nutcracker

    nutcracker Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    very very nice. you should take some glamour shots before you start wearing them :lol:
    love the hg full socks....
     
  8. chogall

    chogall Senior member

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    Either way, there are ways to avoid the tacking. But my guess is not all out workers are aware of it.
     
  9. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    Speculating now, but if I'm seeing what I think I'm seeing, G&G are lining these shoes in a rather unique fashion. The lining appears to be sewn to the folded edge of the topline, before the edge is folded. I'm not entirely sure how this is done but it results in both the upper and the lining having folded edges and no stitching apparent around the topline.

    It's not just this pair of shoes, I've seen it before and admired the technique. But it does not leave any place to put a tack...if a tack is to be used...except in the upper itself.

    On most shoes the topline edge of the lining would be cut/trimmed after the topline had been sewn. This approach affords the extra margin of lining leather you mentioned so that any tacks can be placed in that margin. Slip-on/loafers are commonly done this way. And it's a good approach if, for some reason, you can't or won't lasts "seats up."

    Again, I suspect lasting "seats up" would address the issues of the heel slipping out of position while lasting. But if the shoes are being lasted with a lasting machine, then "seats up" is problematic, not only because it requires an extra amount of human attention...and skilled attention at that...but, in all likelihood, the drafting stroke of the machine will not be able to be adjusted to compensate.
     
  10. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    Yes, I've seen that and done that. I was hoping that it was not "a Tradition in English bespoke" work. But I suppose that it is one way, at least, to get rid of excess upper leather that cannot be used anywhere else because it is too soft or loose fibered. No maker in his right mind will cut the linings from the heart of the hide unless he's cutting a dedicated lining leather.

    The problem, as I see it, is two-fold--First, as mentioned, the linings will then be effectively "scraps." I'm not against using scraps, mind you, but the back part of the shoe gets the most use and abuse. It seems unwise and perhaps even a little short-sighted to short the shoe in that area.

    On the other hand, a good grade of English lining kip can sometimes be as, or even more, expensive than the upper leather.

    Second...and consistent with the first...English lining kip is a natural ivory colour. It will never stain socks. Even the best leathers in the world, if they are dyed, can have some residual dyestuffs that, depending on the location on the hide, can bleed. And sometimes it just depends on dye lot--one lot will be well fixed and the next not so much. ELK's are veg tanned as well, and thus any chance of irritation form migrating chrome salts is minimized.

    --
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2013
  11. Xenon

    Xenon Senior member

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    I've always been curious as to making and lasting a whole cut. You see in the link above that the upper leather is stretched over the last whole. There is no lining and even if there was, the top line is cut last (after being lasted) so how would you sew the top line exterior leather to the lining?

    Is the first step to last the exterior leather, remove last (a week later maybe) through bottom while trying to cause as little distortion as possible. Last lining separately (if lining is also seemless), relast the exterior over the lining then cut top line openning. Allow to dry for a week, unlast the lining and exterior together and then sew the topline.

    Any of this make sense?
     
  12. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    Well, I'm not Bengal, but the process you see in the link is not really and truly lasting the shoe. It is simply "blocking" the upper. For whole cuts (with a back seam) that can be done on a board, as well. Or, it doesn't have to be done at all. Although I believe that blocking makes a better, tighter shoe, less prone to distortion.

    But once the leather has dried in that shape, the top line and facings will be cut and the blocked upper removed from the last. At which point the lining will be added and stitched...as with any shoe. And then, and only then, will the shoe actually be lasted. (it's a little more complicated than that but that's the idea).
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2013
  13. add911_11

    add911_11 Senior member

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    Hey Mr. DWF, do you travel to Hong Kong for order? I can pause my next order from G&G:lol:

    BTW, I can't believe there is academic chatting even for the sock insole.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2013
  14. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    Sorry, I'm too old ...but Oregon isn't that far from Hong Kong :happy:

    In fact, if you want to get technical...and every shoemaker should...there is no such thing as a "sock insole." There is a "sock" (short for "sock liner") and there is the insole. Two different things entirely with two differnt functions.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2013
  15. add911_11

    add911_11 Senior member

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    O dear, it seems I still have a lot to learn.

    I always find your work amazing, and hopefully one time I can have the chance to come and get something made.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2013
  16. bengal-stripe

    bengal-stripe Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    This is the traditional English way of lining formal shoes, it does not apply to boots, nor to "Casuals" (loafers). As anything outside black is considered not formal, you have a bit of a grey area with brown leathers here. Some firms will employ upper leather, some will not. It also does not apply to exotic, fancy grain or suede as upper material. But in recent years, some firms have discovered kid in all colours of the rainbow as lining leather.

    Vintage John Lobb (London)

    [​IMG]

    Cleverley “Russian Reindeer”

    [​IMG]


    John Lobb will be extremely consistent (unless you ask for different specifications): back: lining in upper leather, front lining in "horse". I was told "horse" was traditionally a horse front but is now the bottom split of a cow hide, it is extremely soft with lots of 'pull' and rather yellow in colour. Although that tradition of lining the back in upper leather might have been born from economic necessity (to utilize more of a given hide), I do not think that this is important any more. After all, English bespoke shoes waste hide by not cutting the leather away from underneath a toe cap or a counter at the heel (you have two layers of leather there).



    Now that is a really important reason for all those who love to wear white socks with formal shoes. :D


    All pictures taken from “Centipede” the greatest treasure trove in vintage shoes

    http://centipede.web.fc2.com/
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2013
  17. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    Or grey or tan or light blue or sage green or even argyle. But hey, perhaps traditional English shoemaking doesn't recognize sock colours other than black.
     
  18. Belligero

    Belligero Senior member

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    You probably don't remember these goyser-stitched boots from way back in the thread...

    [​IMG]

    ...but they were finished a while ago...

    [​IMG]

    ...and have not led a sheltered life.

    [​IMG]

    But they do exactly what I want them to, and I'm well-pleased with them for the very shoe-unfriendly environment of Norway. A good experience overall.
     
    3 people like this.
  19. jerrybrowne

    jerrybrowne Senior member

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    John Lobb St James. Have to say the fit is bang on despite no trial fittings. Some issues with finishing that they are addressing, however.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    2 people like this.
  20. add911_11

    add911_11 Senior member

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    Congrats, that is a bloody fine pair of English bespoke shoe. Hope you spend the extra to get a pair of trees, albeit they are extremely expensive.
     

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