The Ultimate "HARDCORE" Shoe Appreciation Thread (Bespoke only)

[ThinkDerm]



No, no fitting yet. I think I just have some patterns and design elements to go over at this point.

MBC = Marcell hun?

 

[patrickBOOTH]

It will remain a secret until it isn't.

 

[Colonel Mustard]

Photos from my first fitting for my first pair of bespoke for which I am hoping to receive some constructive insight from the knowledgeable members on here.





As you will see there is a pronounced crease across the vamp of the left foot which unfortunately, digs into the joint of my big toe. What could the remedy for this be? I raised it as an issue today and it has been marked for the maker's attention but he wasn't there today so I couldn't speak to him. I plan on calling him next week and attaching my photos but any terminology that would help me communicate my issue properly would be appreciated.

Other points worth noting are that they feel a perfect fit everywhere and also the right shoe feels the same as the left aside from the creasing issue over my big toe. Compared to my RTW shoes there is a more pronounced space above my foot across the vamp but again this is uniform over both shoes. Could the creasing be minimized by reducing this void?

The observant amongst you will also note the facings aren't equally closed which I think is accentuated by the photo as it certainly didn't appear that pronounced at the time though it does appear as though the left shoe isn't laced as firmly (I didn't tie the laces so can't say what pressure was applied) which would also seem to be supported by the fact the tongue isn't as flat against the top of my foot on the left shoe. This issue doesn't particularly bother me as I think it is a combination of those factors though I will of course raise it in the same conversation but I thought I would mention it here for completeness - I assume if it was an issue it would have been evident when the lasts were in and will be evident as soon as the lasted trees are installed?

So with the appeal for help on the technical side of things out of the way here are some photos of the more interesting aspects.

 

[Manuel]

Hi Steven, It seems that the measurement is not well taken since the last is last measure, that is why it is wide and is very ugly.

The laces are not good either should be given a little more measurement at the height of the instep.

The solution of a professional would be to rectify the last and reassemble it again.
You have a normal foot .... for a professional it is very easy to fix that.

 

[bengal-stripe]

Simon Crompton had the very same problem with his first pair of bespoke shoes:

https://www.permanentstyle.com/2010/09/bespoke-shoes-at-cleverley-part-9.html

By adjusting the last (in your case, it might be only the left one) and re-lasting over the reduced last, the problem got solved. The same with the instep. Shaving a bit off the instep will leave the laces on the right shoe a bit more open. If you feel the left is too open, addition of a small bit of leather will solve that.

Go and see the fitter (the person who took your order and measurements) and discuss it with him. The "maker" is not your point of call. (You might have used the wrong term, but in English shoe making the maker is the one who does the bottom work.) Those alterations are easily done. Check that the other parameters of fit are fine: a tight fit across the heel and along the waist but ease at the toes..

Once you've discussed the matter, play it safe and ask for a second fitting.

 

[DWFII]



Photos from my first fitting for my first pair of bespoke for which I am hoping to receive some constructive insight from the knowledgeable members on here.

Other points worth noting are that they feel a perfect fit everywhere and also [COLOR=FF0000]the right shoe feels the same as the left[/COLOR] aside from the creasing issue over my big toe. Compared to my RTW shoes there is a more pronounced space above my foot across the vamp but again this is uniform over both shoes. Could the creasing be minimized by reducing this void?

The answer is "yes." All other things being equal, it does no good to have much if any space above the waist and joint. A good fit would be more like a sock--close to the flesh but not pinching. There is a good chance that if that "void" is not reduced, heavier creases will develop as you wear them and break them in....to the point where it is identical or even worse than what you are already seeing on the left shoe.

The observant amongst you will also note the facings aren't equally closed

Bear in mind that the leather around the facings will almost invariably stretch over time and if the facings close up on you now...well, there will come a time when you won't be able to snug the shoe over your instep at all.

Having said all that...IMO and experience loose foreparts are often associated with loose insteps and narrow or non-existent gaps. Sometimes it comes down to incorrect or "estimated" instep, waist and joint girths but, on occasion, also to long heel girths.

A word of advice... avoiding pain, of course...a slightly snug fit everywhere is better than even a slightly "roomy" fit no matter how immediately comfortable seeming. Leather will stretch from the heat and moisture of your body...guaranteed...it will never shrink or get smaller. Guaranteed.

edited for punctuation and clarity

 

[ntempleman]

Left instep needs more room, the inverted V over the vamp is generally caused by the bottom of the instep being too low and the foot pushes it up. You can recreate the effect on any shoe with your hand inside. Often it shakes out with a little wear, but the top of the lacing is pretty wide open too so the whole area needs some adjustment.

Nothing major to worry about and simple to adjust, rather this than the opposite at a fitting.

 

[Colonel Mustard]

Thank you all.

When I said maker I meant Adam Law (head cutter) so apologies for the misused term. At my initial meeting he took my measurements and explained that every step came back through him for quality control so I did expect to see him when I went yesterday but unfortunately he was in America this weekend.

I was told my next fitting would be 12 weeks at which point the soles would be stitched on so I think I am going to phone him next week and cancel this and arrange another fitting with him as soon as I can which to be honest is far from ideal however, I fear I will always regret not doing this.

I will send him the photos and explain as best as I can but I won't be truly confident that I have conveyed the issue(s) until he has seen and felt the them first-hand.

One other thing which I forgot to mention last night was that everywhere is snug and how I hoped they would feel apart from just behind my big toe joint on both feet. This area is slightly slack and an upward, diagonal crease formed as they do on some of my RTW shoes.

Here is a photo of my most affected RTW shoes with some crude annotations to illustrate my point. The white circle is highlighting the crease and the green circle is roughly (from memory) where the creasing was occurring on my bespoke ones. I was assured that once the soles were on and they were properly supported this would not be a problem but whilst I am posting I wonder whether any of you would like to comment.



Thank you all again for your helpful comments - they are very much appreciated.

 

[j ingevaldsson]

Thank you all.
When I said maker I meant Adam Law (head cutter) so apologies for the misused term. At my initial meeting he took my measurements and explained that every step came back through him for quality control so I did expect to see him when I went yesterday but unfortunately he was in America this weekend.

I was told my next fitting would be 12 weeks at which point the soles would be stitched on so I think I am going to phone him next week and cancel this and arrange another fitting with him as soon as I can which to be honest is far from ideal however, I fear I will always regret not doing this.

I will send him the photos and explain as best as I can but I won't be truly confident that I have conveyed the issue(s) until he has seen and felt the them first-hand.

One other thing which I forgot to mention last night was that everywhere is snug and how I hoped they would feel apart from just behind my big toe joint on both feet. This area is slightly slack and an upward, diagonal crease formed as they do on some of my RTW shoes.

Here is a photo of my most affected RTW shoes with some crude annotations to illustrate my point. The white circle is highlighting the crease and the green circle is roughly (from memory) where the creasing was occurring on my bespoke ones. I was assured that once the soles were on and they were properly supported this would not be a problem but whilst I am posting I wonder whether any of you would like to comment.



Thank you all again for your helpful comments - they are very much appreciated.

When it's creasing in the area of the green circle I believe that it's often due to the feather edge of the last at the back part of the inner ball is too wide, that the last needs to be rounded of inwards here. I would not say that this would disappear when they put a sole on, don't know why this should affect this problem at all, but I'm no professional.

 

[DWFII]

If, while you are standing in the shoes (weight on, IOW), you or a friend can reach down and "chase" leather or "pipes" of leather ahead of your fingers or between your fingers and thumb, the shoe is not snug. It is not really a fit, IMO.

Regarding the photo: the green circle would suggest to me that your ball joint is not properly located relative to the heel to ball measurement of the last. And creases in the area of the white circle usually are indicative of, as @j ingevaldsson suggests, an insole that is too wide for the " footprint"--the weight bearing plantar surface of the foot. This could also be partially the cause of the problems you are seeing on the left shoe as well...hard to tell with just a photo.

I am also doubtful that either of these creases will disappear. It is a matter of subjective interpretation but "slack" and "snug" are mutually incompatible, IMO. They cannot both exist at the same time.

Any slack will create unsightly creases (unsightly in my eyes at any rate) to one degree or another esp. over time. And it bears repeating, such slack will never shrink...never go away...only get more slack. You realize that, I hope?

--

 

[Colonel Mustard]

If, while you are standing in the shoes (weight on, IOW), you or a friend can reach down and "chase" leather or "pipes" of leather ahead of your fingers or between your fingers and thumb, the shoe is not snug. It is not really a fit, IMO.

Regarding the photo: the green circle would suggest to me that your ball joint is not properly located relative to the heel to ball measurement of the last. And creases in the area of the white circle usually are indicative of, as @j ingevaldsson suggests, an insole that is too wide for the " footprint"--the weight bearing plantar surface of the foot. This could also be partially the cause of the problems you are seeing on the left shoe as well...hard to tell with just a photo.

I am also doubtful that either of these creases will disappear. It is a matter of subjective interpretation but "slack" and "snug" are mutually incompatible, IMO. They cannot both exist at the same time.

Any slack will create unsightly creases (unsightly in my eyes at any rate) to one degree or another esp. over time. And it bears repeating, such slack will never shrink...never go away...only get more slack. You realize that, I hope?

--

Thank you for your response. I didn't feel this area with my weight on so I will definitely do this at my next fitting. I couldn't honestly see how it would disappear once supported by the soles (as I was advised) but didn't fell qualified to question it any further as I am a casual customer who is reliant on the wisdom and experience of others.

The snug comments were in relation to the fact that when walking I felt in contact with the shoe at all points of my foot apart from across the vamp and when seated with my weight off I felt a slight void in the area I circled but this didn't seem noticeable with my weight on.

The difficulty for somebody who is ignorant of how a shoe is made or even how a shoe should fit in the early stages of making is that they are reliant on the advice of others - hence me posting my questions here.

I do appreciate that the slack won't shrink but wasn't aware that they ought to be a sock-like fit at all points of the fitting stage.

I feel a lot more prepared for the next time and will call them first thing tomorrow to tell them to leave them until I can try them on again in conjunction with Adam Law and my revised expectations.

Thanks again.

 

[DWFII]

Weight bearing, you can often reach down along the side of your toes (on both sides of the foot) and if you press firmly straight downward (or just slightly inward), feel the edge of the insole. If you can do this the insole is usually too wide...as the side of the foot is almost always wider than the footprint.

Anywhere in the forepart of the shoe (where there is not a stiffener, IOW) is subject to the same criteria.

It's even the same in the heel area but the stiffener precludes such a simple test--you'd nearly have to cut the back of the shoe apart to see if the insole was too wide in the heel area. A lot of really diligent makers do just that. [FWIW, if one models / creates the last to a weight bearing footprint, cutting open the fitter's model is almost unnecessary.]

It doesn't do anyone any good to have that extra insole...which is not only not bearing any weight but relatively stiff...hanging out there. The only thing such a construction does is collect inordinate amounts of lint.

That said, it is also indicative of extra room in the shoe that your foot (and a correct fit) does not need.

 

[patrickBOOTH]

Odd questions: let's say you have some manufactured shoes and some bespoke shoes. Could a bespoke maker realast the manufactured shoes on your bespoke last? Next, would it be an ethical dilemma?

 

[DWFII]



Odd questions: let's say you have some manufactured shoes and some bespoke shoes. Could a bespoke maker realast the manufactured shoes on your bespoke last? Next, would it be an ethical dilemma?

All other things being equal...ie. the lasts were roughly the same size (or the new last slightly smaller)...the chances are good. But don't expect it to be a wham-bam-thank-you-m'am inexpensive job. Half or more of the work of making a shoe is lasting and bottoming.

Beyond that...and the reason I would be hesitant...manufactured shoes are almost always GY and gemmed. The frequency and position of inseaming holes and insole thicknesses come into play here and make things difficult.

As far as ethics is concerned they're your shoes.

 

[patrickBOOTH]

If this were done would new toe and heel stiffeners have to be made?