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The Ultimate "HARDCORE" Shoe Porn Thread (Bespoke only)

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by luk-cha, Jul 3, 2010.

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  1. chogall

    chogall Senior member

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    Good observation. Maybe orthotics?
     
  2. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    Well, my opinion is informed by real, objective knowledge and experience. Yours is informed by ignorance.

    The student has a foot that is not unlike millions of other people in this world. It is a healthy foot. The shoe and the workmanship both were good to very good and in some respects, excellent.

    The bottom line is that no matter the shape, no matter the appearance, it is better to have your foot in a shoe that fits, than stuffed into your mouth...as anyone who speaks so ignorantly is prone to.

    --
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2014
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  3. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    As I recall, the back height on the forme is exactly 60mm. Formes and patterns are derived from the bare last. Shoes often have an insole (in this case about 9-10 iron). I would hope you knew that but one can never be too certain when confronted with nonsense.

    I'm 5'6' (I used to be 5'8" ). He's shorter than me and not vain at all. Why speculate? It's ignorance in action.

    Geeze, with so much knowledge at your disposal, you'd expect a little more perspicacity. Look at the angle the photo was taken from. There is no false bottom. Have you never seen photos of shoes that made the toe cap look short?

    I gave you the information that the heel is one inch--that is always measured from ground to the "plantar" surface of the outsole at the breast of the heel. Even given the angle of the photo, using the heel height as a rough gauge, there couldn't be much more than 65mm from the heel seat to the topline. "Why not use your mentality...?"

    [​IMG]


    “Living is easy with eyes closed.”― John Lennon

    --
     
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  4. Burton

    Burton Senior member

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    Save your bully tactics and misuse of Mr. Asimov for someone who thinks you know what you are talking about. The shoes are ugly. That I can judge. If a shoe is supposed to provide a flattering look to the wearer, these are an epic fail. If they are supposed to give you visions of Charlie Brown hanging out all night in a pumpkin patch, they are a wild success. They may fit perfectly, but they are only useful as doorstops.
     
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  5. bengal-stripe

    bengal-stripe Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    The basic rule of distortion is that a high view point shortens and a low view point lengthens. So, you have managed to change the rules of perspective. Congratulations!


    If you say so! - It's only the photography that makes a perfect and well-proportioned shoe to look like a bath tub. :D
     
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  6. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    How is that? The photo first posted is a rather high view--looking down on the shoe from an angle. Even the photo below is taken from a slightly elevated angle--you can see the lateral topline despite it being 5mm lower than the medial topline.

    The shoe is bespoke. It is made for a foot that will never appear in the New Yorker or Haute Couture magazine (unlike yours or Burton's, presumably)

    But if either of you were shoemakers or in the least objective, you'd understand that the first rule of the maker is to respect the foot. Fit what is there.

    Not being shoemakers the only standard you can possibly bring to bear is one that is steeped in superficiality and ignorance. Aren't you clever and sophisticated?! (see definition of sophistry)

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2014
  7. bengal-stripe

    bengal-stripe Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Everything for a quiet life - The shoe is beautiful and doesn't look like a bathtub at all!
     
  8. Burton

    Burton Senior member

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    So only artists are qualified to comment on art? Hmmm. Everyone in this forum has enough knowledge to comment on what they like. You don't like the responses. I want to live in your world. A world where I get to tell people that my opinion is "fact" and theirs is ignorance. I am sure there is a scientific aspect to shoemaking, it is just not clear if you are acquainted with it. No one calls you on your bully behavior, but you engage in it all the time. You posted the shoes. To my eye, as untrained and unworthy as it is, they aren't fit to be worn by anyone.
     
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  9. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    I posted some photos of shoes that a student of mine had made. Your first response was more bullying than anything I've said since. You just don't like it when people mount a defense. Or point out your ignorance (note "ignorance" is defined as "lack of knowledge" not necessarily stupidity although willful ignorance is very nearly the definition of stupidity.)

    The "cloven hoof" remark was a direct and unprovoked attack on someone you don't even know. ..and I'm not talking about me. It was a shining example of bullying.

    If you or Rolf were to indulge yourselves in a moment of serious thought several things might come to mind:

    1)The maker is a doctor. He is educated, intelligent and a person who tries to help people. All characteristics that seem to be missing in your posts. For which he receives a commensurate reward--he makes far more money than many here with equally ignorant opinions as your own. More than a shoemaker, for certain.

    2) The possibility approaches certainty that he wanted to learn to make shoes because he cannot get a decent fit in commercial RTW footwear...at any price. All within his ability to afford...at any price.

    3) He chose the leather, he chose the style. He approved the fit (I agreed it was a good fit)

    4) He is a shoemaker and a pretty good one (not just by virtue of this pair)...

    and this is important--that's something that neither of you are!

    5) Neither of you could have done what he has done, much less half so well.

    Shoemaking is a Trade, it is not an art. If you are looking for art...esp. body art ...consider a pink feather boa.
     
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  10. RogerP

    RogerP Senior member

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    Worse, there are a number who support and actively encourage such behavior by all but denying its existence, much less its prevalence.

    I can admire the skill required to make a pair of shoes such as these, and hope they provide the owner and maker with a lifetime of service. If he is happy with them, that is what matters most. But none of that changes the fact that to my eyes, they are spectacularly ugly.
     
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  11. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    Oh well.

    To those less ignorant such criticisms/opinions are spectacularly superficial.

    What's more, and maybe more importantly, no one asked for your opinion...or Burton's or Rolf's. It's gratuitous snottiness, that's all.

    --
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2014
  12. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    Compared to other shoes made for narrower feet, it is not beautiful. No one said it was. No one asked for a critique of its beauty. Or its suitability for show.

    As a display of an amateur bespoke shoemaker's skill, however...all of which revolves around fitting the foot...it is lovely.

    And if you want "a quiet life," think about what you want to say before running off at the metaphorical mouth. Everything you've posted in response to the photos has been wrong, objectively, provably wrong.

    And motivated by snottiness or a sycophantic, group think mentality.

    --
     
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  13. emptym

    emptym Senior member Moderator

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    Weird. The shoes look good to me.
     
  14. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    Thank you. And more importantly thank you on behalf of the student.

    :cheers:
     
  15. thelonius

    thelonius Senior member

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    The shoes are handsome. They do seem to be slightly deeper, or higher, than most models, but I think it gives them a very special profile, and they look very solid and supportive for the foot. They'd suit a wide choice of trouser, including jeans and probably a kilt.
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2014
  16. chogall

    chogall Senior member

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    The work is very clean for a shoemakers first pair of shoes.

    Similar to bespoke suits, different makers will have different silhouette. And this one looks quite mechanical to my eyes and the shape is not to my taste. But then again I don't like Cleverley's bespoke house style either. Nor do I like il micio.

    I do think it is okay to comment on the aesthetics of the last. All bespoke last shapes could be unappealing to some.
     
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  17. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    Thank you.

    The fact is that they are no deeper or higher than the standard for a size 7...as BS inadvertently pointed out.

    When I was coming up, one of the things my teachers taught me is that when you are presenting shoes or putting them in shows, etc., always display a 10A. Slightly longer and narrower than average, IOW. Such shoes will always look sleeker and more elegant than shorter, wider shoes.
     
  18. RogerP

    RogerP Senior member

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    This is a discussion forum. Expressing an opinion requires neither you prior invitation nor your subsequent approval.

    In the pursuit of any craft which marries function and form, it is not uncommon that the beginner has greater initial success with the former, while the latter takes more time and experience. A new knifemaker will often product a perfectly functional and serviceable cutting tool with his first guided attempt - but it is rarely a thing of beauty. I have no doubt that this maker will produce better looking shoes on his second or third attempt. Assuming, of course, that it is communicated to him that a bathtub is generally a poor design aesthetic for quality footwear.
     
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  19. bengal-stripe

    bengal-stripe Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Listen, that with the 'false bottom' was a joke. If you are honest, you must admit the shoe looks like a shoe and a half in depth. Obviously, humour is not your strong point, otherwise you could have answered light-hearted "I wish it were, but those are the real feet, they do fill the entire room of the last."

    A tailor cannot change your figure, but a skilled one can make you look taller, slimmer (or whatever you desire). A bad tailor can make you look shorter or more stumpy. So can a skilled last maker. Are you really certain that, for those particular feet, no last maker in the world could have come up with a well-fitting but aesthetically more pleasing results? I do remember a few years back, when one of the very best last makers of his generation spoke about a former colleague, an orthopaedic last maker (probably long deceased by then) and mentioned that this guy had the uncanny ability to come up with a pleasant looking last even for the most deformed feet: "If I had deformed feet, I only would want him to make a last for me."

    Is that a skill you believe you have? Do you really believe this last was the best possible last for those particular feet?
     
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  20. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    It's something I've commented on repeatedly--people here obsess and nail bite over last shapes..."the 'F' last versus the 'K'" last.," for instance. It's all bogus, IMO.

    When you're dealing with RTW, I suppose that's one of the very few control handles you have and so you latch onto it almost in desperation.

    But for a bespoke maker it is all about fit...not last shape or high insteps or wide tread lines--Not that those aren't important but they can all be changed to meet the customer's desires or sensibilities.

    That said, for most of my customers, a European looking last would be too "metro-sexual"...too prissy or "dandified"...for them. Last year I made a pair of alligator balmorals with a wide square toe for a high priced architect...in LA of all places!

    My lasts deliberately have a higher toespring because I was taught...and believe...that a higher toe spring decreases creasing.

    I suspect the toe profile could be a little lower but no customer has complained--just the reverse, in fact.

    Other than that, my lasts combine the best aspects of several vintage West End lasts I was privileged to have access to, as well as the best of what I could borrow from some of the more highly respected lasts from makers on this site.
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2014

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