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The Ultimate "HARDCORE" Shoe Porn Thread (Bespoke only)

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by luk-cha, Jul 3, 2010.

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  1. chogall

    chogall Distinguished Member

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    Nice!

    Can't see the hatchgrain details with the picture resolution.

    One observations from my untrained eyes. G&G choose to tack the upper to the last using a pin on the upper at the heel, instead of making some excess lining and pin the lining on the last. The latter is better IMO and won't leave a pin hole on the heel.

    p.s., on your tumblr you compared this to EG RTW. :( Bespoke shoes are in a totally different league in arch fitting (and support/stiffening if you request for it).
     


  2. add911_11

    add911_11 Distinguished Member

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    Woo, my experience is limited. can you explain more about the lasting method? you mean the stitching the the top of the heel?

    i am comparing with my old EG top drawer, it is pretty close, but bespoke GG is a little better. Not that much different, both are comfortable enough for me.
     


  3. chogall

    chogall Distinguished Member

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    During lasting phase for seamless wholecuts, makers usually have to put a tack the upper on the top of the heel to fasten the upper and make sure the heel cup is correctly situated at a proper height. And the leather will be hammered and stay on the last for days/weeks to take shape. That very so slightly bigger hole at the lower row of the heel stitching is probably where the tack is.

    The alternative is, when they construct the upper linings/stiffeners, they just have to leave some extra lining/stiffening material, and tack the upper at the extra materials. After they done lasting, they could just cut away the extras and leave no tacking holes at the upper outer.

    That's just my amateurish/hobbyist opinion.

    Posh, DWFII, Shoefan, fishball or other resident shoemakers could probably explain it better. Or BStripe.
     


  4. add911_11

    add911_11 Distinguished Member

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    From your words, so I presumed it is only a matter of look. I do see your point, my St. Cripins oxford does have a true clean look. But you know, it is hard in the first place to last a full seamless whole cut...

    BTW, the shoe is also fully hatch-grain lined.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2013


  5. chogall

    chogall Distinguished Member

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    Yes its just visual imperfections.

    The lining is also full hatch-grain? How heavy/thick are the shoes? I have some hatch grain samples and those leathers are thick and heavy, at least 4x the thickness of pigskin......
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2013


  6. add911_11

    add911_11 Distinguished Member

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    O it is as heavy as my C&J barmoral boots, for example. p.s. including shoetrees.

    sorry, I only mean full hatch-grain insole.

    The leather is the thickest I have handled, amongst the 'bespoke grade' calfskin.

    But one thing I have learn today, the leather finishing between deco and RTW are no different. Bespoke is a little step above, initial finishing is excellent, antiquing is only ok in compare to my corthay.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2013


  7. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    I've never understood why the tack or the extra lining is needed. If the shoe is lasted "seats up"...meaning that the back of the last is not all the way down into the shoe as the first, second, third and probably fourth and fifth drafts are taken...then when the shoe heel is "hoisted" the tension all along the topline, including around the back of the heel, will be sufficient to create the cup and hold the shoe firmly in position.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2013


  8. add911_11

    add911_11 Distinguished Member

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    Is it because the whole-cut design is a little bit difficult?
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2013


  9. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    I don't think so. The topline and the tension along the topline has nothing to do with whether it is a whole cut or not.

    And to tell the truth, any hole that doesn't belong or have a function makes me suspect that it's just the result of not taking enough time.
     


  10. chogall

    chogall Distinguished Member

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    Neither, but then I am not a shoemaker so I just state what my limited knowledge, observation, and very infrequently, conjectures.
     


  11. add911_11

    add911_11 Distinguished Member

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    Shall I refer your words to the bespoke tem in G&G for my next project?

    Just joking, but I will bear this in mind, thanks for that.

    So do you also agree that it is merely a visual imperfection? Or is it not good for the shoe?
     


  12. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    If you want them to look at you like "who the hell is DWFII?"

    More than a visual imperfection, less than significantly bad for the shoe.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2013


  13. add911_11

    add911_11 Distinguished Member

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    Can you explain a bit more master? what is this in between damage?

    The hole is stitched through with the thread. Will it be really worse than barmoral full back stitches?
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2013


  14. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    Yes, they've camouflaged the damage very well. (and really, that's one sign of mastery...kind of--the ability to conceal mistakes and disguise the less-than-graceful bits).

    But it is still a hole in the shoe.

    Some years ago, I was into carving ivory and very hard woods and making silver appointed jewelry. When a person does or learns this kind of thing, it is always wise look closely at...study...the work of others--the real masters of that particular avocation, if no one else.

    One of the things I took away from that time and that study was the idea that residual "tool marks" are a sign of the amateur, and are aesthetically clumsy and functionally counterproductive. I think this is a universal truth...at least for everyone who works with their hands.

    The tack hole is unnecessary. It is bigger than the holes made by the needle. It is obvious...like a poke in the eye. You can see it in the photo.

    If it were two millimeters in diameter instead of one, would it be just as acceptable? Especially if it were camouflaged with stitching? How about if it were three millimeters in diameter? When does the size factor in for you? When does the notion that the leather has been cut/damaged to an extent that a relatively much smaller needle does not, factor in?

    It's a superfluous, residual tool mark. It lacks finesse...indeed, it appears oblivious to the concept.

    I guess it's just a matter of opinion, but that's mine...and the reason I don't use a tack.

    --
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2013


  15. nutcracker

    nutcracker Distinguished Member Dubiously Honored

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    Sorry guys, I know you're in a middle of a discussion

    but a Seamless wholecut with hatchgrained leather inside out? wow congrats
     


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