The Tailors' Thread: Fit Feedback and Alteration Suggestions

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by emptym, Sep 14, 2011.

  1. OTCtailor

    OTCtailor Senior member

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    I'll upload them to my personal album so not to clog up the forum. Be patient as taking pics of what I'm working on while I'm working on it and then posting with description is actually very time consuming. If you're doing this stuff by yourself, are you using a regular sewing machine? The machine I have is old and has a drop feed option which is how I actually reattach the buttons on a jacket sleeve.
    The back length...
    It will do no good to shorten from the bottom because the back balance itself is actually 'falling down' your back. That is to say the excess cloth is collapsing. It has to do with the way your natural posture is vs how the jacket is cut to hang. The natural back balance of the jacket is simply too long for your back. It has everything to do with the term "balance" which is something controlled at the shoulder seam/neckpoint. If you remove it from the bottom, it will still collapse but the jacket will just be shorter because there is no actual change at the balance. Shortening from the top involves ripping the undercollar away from the neckhole, ripping the shoulder seam out and moving the shoulder line on the back part only. This is typical for squaring shoulders. There's a tutorial on here in the second tailors' thread.
    In your case, and it would help to have better pics, it looks like the whole back section is just too long...something related to your posture.
    If this is the case and it's that extreme, you rip the shoulder seam out all the way to the armscye and rip the whole back part all the way down the back of the scye and the side seams. Then you measure down from the top of the shoulder to create a new shoulder line and essentially shift the whole back section upwards cutting away the excess at the top. Definitely not something you want to try yourself.
     


  2. OTCtailor

    OTCtailor Senior member

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    I'm afraid I don't understand this question exactly, but I think you might be referring to the shape of the lapels which is dictated by how highthe crossover point is or by how many buttons are on the front...?
     


  3. OTCtailor

    OTCtailor Senior member

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    you usually see just over an inch from bottom of cuff to first button.
     


  4. gotmoo

    gotmoo Member

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    Hi tailors, I previously posted my MTM suit and received great suggestions from many of you:

    http://www.styleforum.net/t/265924/...-and-alteration-suggestions/2415#post_6028951

    I just went back for my refitting today and a new issue arose. I wanted the shoulders to be taken in about 0.5 inches on each side because they were a tad too wide. I'm not exactly sure what the tailor did, but although the shoulder line on the external surface of the suit is taken in and is at the correct position, the actual arm hole (thicker material) on the inside is exactly the same spot. I'm not sure what the exact terminology is, but now there is an extra bump on the lateral side of the shoulder hole. Unfortunately I didn't take a picture...but basically what I feel is that the shoulder line moved, but the actual armhole is exactly at the same position, so now there's an extra long bump on the outside of the shoulders...it's very obvious visually, and I'm worried about whether or not it can be salvaged...

    I'm sure I'm not describing this in the most correct way, but does this mean the shoulder wasn't properly taken in and the tailor only worked on the outside layer and not all layers of the full-canvassed suit? (? didn't bother taking in all the layers underneath the superficial layer?...)

    Any input from you guys would be greatly appreciated, thanks so much again!
     


  5. OTCtailor

    OTCtailor Senior member

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    Would be helpful you'd have taken pics without the jacket and with shoes on...
    However, it could be a number of things. Is the waist too loose? If so, it could be falling down in the back. If the seat is too baggy, that will compound the problem. The stride doesn't look too full so it's probably the aforementioned issues. That, and the back rise may be too high causing a collapse in material from the waist down. I went online and went thru the ordering process for indochino just to see how they account for your posture and there is nothing in the process to determine what your seat looks like. That explains why you see all their pants having problems in this area.
    It is fixable. A tailor will just figure out what's going on with the pants from the waist to the crotch. Once he knows what to fix there he can deal with the length if it's an issue.
     


  6. OTCtailor

    OTCtailor Senior member

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    It's way too difficult to try to break this down without a picture.
     


  7. gotmoo

    gotmoo Member

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    Yeah....especially when I can't use the proper terminology, I didn't have my phone with me so couldn't take a proper picture. I drew the following diagram to illustrate, the height of the bump is exaggerated a little bit, but honestly on both sides you can see a bump like that...basically the shoulder line is shifted a little more medially, and the bump on the lateral side as shown is prominent and obvious.




    [​IMG]
     


  8. OTCtailor

    OTCtailor Senior member

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    If the jacket shoulder was originally a "natural" shoulder, then the way it's done is by pressing part of the seam allowance in the direction of the jacket body or towards the collar. This sortof flattens out the very top of the shoulder while the front and back of the shoulder still have the ridge/roll. You see this alot in RTW shoulders.
    What your picture is showing is more of a "roped" shoulder. When the sleeve was re-set to the armscye, the seam allowance was pressed towards the sleevehead all around. This causes the roping effect. a total opposite of this is what they call "spalla camicia" or shirt shoulder, where the seam allowance is pressed towards the collar completely much like a dress shirt is.
    jefferyd expanded upon this quite a bit in his blog:
    http://tuttofattoamano.blogspot.com/search/label/shoulders
     


  9. RDiaz

    RDiaz Senior member

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    Perfect! Yeah, it looked fine to me, but had to ask [​IMG]
     


  10. gotmoo

    gotmoo Member

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    Is it possible to salvage this alteration where the roped part is much more prominent than prior to adjusting the shoulder?
     


  11. OTCtailor

    OTCtailor Senior member

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    I assume you're asking if it's possible to alter the shoulder without making that prominent roped look...?
    And the answer is yes, it is, but it's easier to alter and just press everything over towards the sleevehead. Creating a natural shoulder involves pressing the seam open a few inches forward and behind the shoulder seam....which is more labor on an already labor instensive job. I'll post a pic.
     


  12. OTCtailor

    OTCtailor Senior member

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    [​IMG]
    I think this picture is self-explanatory. I'm amazed at your ability to "illustrate" that picture above. I'm obviously skilled in other areas.
    Anyway, this sketch is a natural shoulder on top and a roped shoulder on the bottom specifically how the seams are manipulated to achieve the look. There is more that goes into it than just seam manipulation, but it's part of the whole equation. In the drawing on the left you see what would be the top view of the shoulder seam and on the right you see what would be the front view. You see how the seam allowance is pressed towards the collar a few inches forward and behind the shoulder seam? Basically, it's just sliced in two spots and pressed open and then towards the collar. It's sandwiched between the fabric and the shoulderpad.
     


  13. OTCtailor

    OTCtailor Senior member

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    Check in my profile pics for these pics
     


  14. gotmoo

    gotmoo Member

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    Thanks for these!

    I actually have no problem with the roped shoulder, as it appears many suits are finished that way. I'm more concerned about how the shoulder appears like the "after" picture I posted following alteration, the rope is significantly more prominent than prior to alteration, which makes me think that the "rope" part was never moved in the first place and only the superficial layer of fabric was pulled towards the body, which really doesn't help with the shoulder situation much at all...
     


  15. OTCtailor

    OTCtailor Senior member

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    For those of you dealing with sleeves that are either too long or too short on RTW jackets. This picture will help you understand why the less you have to shorten a jacket sleeve, the better off it'll be. This visualizes the problem of the sleeve vent and why you can't make it higher as you shorten a sleeve.
    [​IMG]
    Where it says "old pressing line" is where the original length of the sleeve would be. Those white lines are there because this sleeve was getting lengthened, and as you can see, you can only go so far.
    Let's say you needed them shortened by +1". The red line indicating "New pressing line/cuff length" is where it would be shortened to. That small extension of fabric is the vent. That sharp right angle at the "top of sleeve vent" is where the outside sleeve seam travels up the elbow. The only way you can raise a vent is if the maker has a really wide seam allowance on the outside sleeve seam or they just extend the vent way up the sleeve, but there's really no reason for them to do this because it's RTW. You just end up with a really short vent if you need sleeves shortened ALOT.
    This concept is identical in jacket vents in the back of the jacket. It's why you normally can't add double vents to a jacket that has no vents at all.
     


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