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The Tailors' Thread: Fit Feedback and Alteration Suggestions

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by emptym, Sep 14, 2011.

  1. jefferyd

    jefferyd Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    hugh51271 and oman112 both post questions about what is commonly referred to around here as a "divot" on the sleeve, and ask if this has anything to do with the shoulders being too wide, and the answer is no. Divots have nothing to do with the shoulder width. Here is a gross oversimplification:

    The sleeve must be drafted in a size and shape that relate to the size and shape of the armhole. When the garment fits correctly though the chest (that includes, most critically, across the back) the sleeve will fit correctly.

    If there is tension in the chest, the garment will pull, compressing the armhole. It gets shorter and wider. The sleeve, however, has not changed, so it will pull, and the excess cap height in relation to the armhole height will result in the divot.

    We can see where hugh's full blades are pulling on the jacket- this tension is pulling the armhole and sleeve out of shape.

    There are a few other, more arcane things at play here, but the gist of it is that. In most cases, if there is a severe divot, it can not be fixed. Minor ones can sometimes be fixed but you need to be seen, in person, by a competent tailor to get a proper assessment. Since it involves removing and resetting the sleeve, it won't be a cheap fix either.

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    4 people like this.
  2. Betelgeuse

    Betelgeuse Senior member

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    ^^That has to be the best example of shoulder divots. I never imagine that they were caused by that. Thanks jefferyd!
     
  3. Leader12

    Leader12 Member

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    Tomorrow I´m taking my suit to the tailor to make some arrangements but I need some advice. I will have the sleeves shortened so I can show some cuff from the shirt, but what else besides that should I do?

    Heres some pics for reference. Sorry for the cellphone pics.

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  4. Leader12

    Leader12 Member

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    I´m taking my suit tomorrow to the tailor to have the sleeves shortened but I would like some more advice on what else to do for it to look as good as possible. I feel the sleeves around the biceps bunch up a bit.

    Excuse my cell phone pics. Thats what I had at the moment. Thanks!

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    Last edited: Jan 9, 2013
  5. OTCtailor

    OTCtailor Senior member

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    Thank you, jefferyd...
    These are all things that I see but simply don't have the time in to communicate certain problems quite like that. Learning experience over here, too!
     
  6. oman112

    oman112 Member

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    Thank you for that great explanation jeffryd! Fortunately I am still in the stage where I can request a remake from Indochino. Will I be able to solve my shoulder divot simply by increasing my chest measurement? If so, by how much? Again, thank you for the lesson.
     
  7. Doughnuts

    Doughnuts Member

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    NYC
    Thank you very much!

    I will post an update when I get it back from my tailor.
     
  8. katabatic

    katabatic Senior member

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    San Francisco
    This is the MTM tuxedo that I just got. While I'm happy with parts of it, the sleeves have some pretty noticeable issues. From what I've read in this thread, it may be a matter of sleeve pitch? I also have somewhat forward pitched shoulders, which I think they failed to take into account. Ironically, the sleeves on my OTR Suitsupply Sienna don't show any of these issues.

    (Parenthetically, I want to add that I'm in awe of everyone who gets great pictures, in this thread and others! It's surprisingly difficult to get good pictures of yourself in a suit on your own, especially in a cramped and poorly lit flat).


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  9. Blackhood

    Blackhood Senior member

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    Cambridge, UK
    Apologies if this is mis-using the the thread but I have a question for the tailors rather than members specifically and this seems like the most unobtrusive place to ask.

    Is there a technical, historical or practical reason that double breasted suits almost always have a peak lapel? Naturally you see a few shawl lapel DJs, but I can't recall ever seeing a notched lapel version. If anyone could explain why this is (or might be, if "tradition" is the only suitable answer) it would be much appreciated.

    Edit: I should clarify, I am not thinking of making/buying one, I just want to fill a gap in my knowledge.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2013
  10. yfarmanara

    yfarmanara Well-Known Member

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    Jul 20, 2008
    Location:
    Vancouver, BC
    Wondering if I could get some advice on the bunching in the sleeves and armpit. Unfortunately only have an iPhone camera on hand at the moment. Thanks in advance!

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    http://www.styleforum.net/content/type/61/id/633478/width/200/height/400[/IMG}
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    Reposting, just in case it got lost in the middle of a couple of others. Appreciate the help, thanks! Thread has been very informative.
     
  11. sciphiyem

    sciphiyem Senior member

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    Location:
    London
    [​IMG]

    Thoughts? It's a bit snug in the armholes, especially when I try to reach up above my head or down to my toes, does this mean its too small? It's a 38. Sorry for the crappy picture!
     
  12. unclesam099

    unclesam099 Senior member

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    Nov 18, 2010
    Location:
    SE PA, USA
    



    Yes.

    I plan on never ordering that model waistcoat again. I might end up cutting the button off and living with a buttonhole on the other side.

    I think the angle of the photos is what does it. I still want to make the front points a bit shorter on my next order.
     
  13. amgwhip123

    amgwhip123 Member

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    Jan 10, 2013
    I would greatly appreciate the input of tailors. I am a long time lurker, and I have gained knowledge from this site, I just want to begin by thanking everyone for their contributions..

    Ok, So I purchased this is Polo Black Label suit, the Anthony pinstripe in a dark navy color. I bought a 40S, I usually wear a 38s slim fit, I tried the 38s in this suit, but the Black Label 38 lapels bowed slightly and the shoulder felt too cramped.

    I want a timeless fit, slim yet professional, nothing skin tight like Euro HM models (nothing against that, just my personal pref)

    I am 5'8 140 lbs, broad shoulders, athletic build.
    My measurements are:

    Chest: 37-37.5 inch , (sometimes it is 37.5 when i am working out regularly)
    Neck: 14.7
    Waist: 31

    My shoulders are broad, and squared, I have been told by numerous tailors that I will always have a slight collar roll or pulling of the collar in the back of my suit jackets due to the shape of my shoulders.

    Here are some pictures in various poses of the jacket:
    I know the sleeves need to be shortened and waist/body needs to be taken in, but is this a good fit? should i keep it?

    Please let me know.. thank you in advance.

    Front[​IMG]




    Side:


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    Back:


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    Arm Raised and in Motion


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    diff angle, while moving,


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  14. Badandy

    Badandy Senior member

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    Jun 7, 2008
    Hey everyone. Here is a photo album of my trial suit before MTM alteration. I will withhold my comments for now as to not affect what anyone here says. I would greatly appreciate any feedback, especially from the esteemed tailors who are so active in this thread.

    http://imgur.com/a/bdX2u#0
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2013
  15. OTCtailor

    OTCtailor Senior member

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    Lehigh Valley, PA
    Agree that the sleeves could be shortened a bit. 1/4" at most. The waist is a little tight. The rest of what I can see looks alright.
     
  16. OTCtailor

    OTCtailor Senior member

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    The lack of movement in the armhole indicates that the armhole is a bit too big. However, reaching above your head or down to your toes really isn't a movement that anyone wearing a suit would normally do.
    Hard to tell with your picture, but if you have a tailor, take it to him. It may need to have the sleeves shortened slightly and the hem of the pants adjusted.
     
  17. OTCtailor

    OTCtailor Senior member

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    From the pictures, it looks like the back balance is a little short. A front picture would've been helpful, but the chest may be tight, as well. The jacket looks like it's fighting your posture. The bunching in the back around the armhole has to do with the way it's cut. The sleeve bunching only occurs on one side. Is it a pre-owned garment, mtm, or OTR?
     
  18. OTCtailor

    OTCtailor Senior member

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    Ultimately, you'd have to look up the history of the suit, but a double breasted lounge suit is a step-up in formality from the single breasted version. The peak lapel is a step up in formality from the notch lapel. It's a sartorial mismatch to have a notch lapel with a double breast. You do see it occasionally, but it's more of a fashion move than anything else. The shawl collar is is found on DB dinner jackets, mostly.
    Lastly, DB suits are designed to present a specific visual aesthetic, which is the broadening and lengthening of the torso. The different button stances allow for different builds of torso. The peak lapel is a natural fit for that purpose.
     
  19. OTCtailor

    OTCtailor Senior member

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    Location:
    Lehigh Valley, PA
    The immediately obvious is that the sleeves are too short. Granted, shirt sleeves are a little long, but the jacket sleeves are a good 1/2" short.
    The front balance looks to be a little short. Sleeve pitch? It's off but that could be an incorrect posture analysis within the mtm order.
    Lastly, the pants are far too long and the stride is out. The waist and seat may be loose as well?
    I am, however, enamored by the Juki behind you.
     
  20. katabatic

    katabatic Senior member

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    Location:
    San Francisco
    Thanks for the analysis! Re: the sleeves, it's an off the rack shirt that hasn't been altered - I have an 18" neck, so getting shirts that fit in sleeve off the rack is pretty much impossible. I'll be getting the sleeves shortened at least 1/4"; I hate the feeling of them resting on the sides of my hands.

    The Juki is one of my favorite things I own :) (in my spare time I make outdoor gear).
     

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