The SW&D Intellectual Masturbation Station

[pickpackpockpuck]

do people still take the mind/body debate seriously? I doubt any doctors would at least

 

[Lane]

i'd suggesting reading about it before making such assertions, I assume you think the dualist side is dumb, but they actually have some good arguments. Physicalism seems most logical to me, though.

 

[pickpackpockpuck]

Really? not trying to be a dick. I genuinely thought this way of looking at the mind was considered outdated. Maybe it's because I read a lot of neuroscience stuff (aimed at laymen, not like scientific journals or anything). At least in that community it seems the consensus is you can't separate one from the other.

 

[Lane]

look up the Marys room experiment, its a pretty good one. There is other stuff as well in books I read a while ago, so I forgot lol

 

[pickpackpockpuck]

oh, it's the qualia problem. interesting:

The Mary’s Room example has been cited by a number of other philosophers, such as David Chalmers who uses the example to suppose that there are additional irreducible properties of the brain beyond the physical ones known to scientists.

It is important to note, though, that years later, Jackson reversed his stance on the argument, explaining that the knowledge argument and Mary’s Room are deeply rooted in our intuitions about the matter, but that science can offer other explanations for the apparent discrepancy.

http://www.philosophy-index.com/jackson/marys-room/

you should check out V.S. Ramachandran on qualia. He's studied synesthetes (people whose senses are kinda wired together) and has some interesting ideas on this. http://planetparadigm.wordpress.com/2009/02/23/qualia-and-consciousness/

EDIT: incidentally, some things you should check out that you'll probably get a kick out of: Phineas Gage; Cotard's syndrome; Capgras delusion. These all support the idea that the mind stems from the physicals properties of our brains.

 

[Lane]

yah, I knew the mary room experiment had rebuttals already, gonna check out that stuff, thanks

 

[Lorcan7]

"All that was once directly lived has become mere representation" -seems appropriate for an internet forum

(starts proper around 2:30)

 

[andrewsd]

there's still interesting fiction dealing with the mind-body problem, e.g. Robinson's Housekeeping, McCarthy's Remainder.

It seems like (at least in literature) the argument for dualism is more grounded; the idea being that art explains the mind in a way that science cannot.

 

[FlyingMonkey]

Some fairly recent SF recommendations: Ian Macdonald - Brazyl, River of Gods; Adam Roberts - New Model Army; Paolo Bacigalupi - The Wind-Up Girl; Tricia Sullivan - Lightborn...

I'm also partial to a bit of urban fantasy (or 'the new weird' if you like trite 'movement' descriptions) like China Mieville - anything really, but start with Perdido Street Station or The City and the City if you want something less SF and more along the lines of the mid-century European experiemental fiction of Calvino et al.

Oh, and Teger, totally with you on PKD, but not on dismissing William Gibson's post-Sprawl Trilogy work. Also agree that Snow Crash is massively overrated. The Diamond Age is good though, and his most recent work, Anathem, is fun.

Other classic stuff - yes, absolutely, John Brunner, needs to be much more widely appreciated. In fact, read anything and everything on the SF Masterworks list...

 

[Fuuma]



do people still take the mind/body debate seriously? I doubt any doctors would at least

Do people still take doctors seriously?

 

[pickpackpockpuck]

Yes, I think a lot of people still take doctors seriously, especially if they have any health problems.

 

[skrz]

anyone read house of leaves? its perfect pomo jerkoff material

 

[Dellath]



Other classic stuff - yes, absolutely, John Brunner, needs to be much more widely appreciated. In fact, read anything and everything on the SF Masterworks list... 

Yeah, that Masterworks list is fantastic. I just got through the Lord of Light by Roger Zelazny which is number 7 on that list.
The mixture of Hindu-Buddhist dogma with a modern western world just scratched a inch i never thought i had, lots of fun! I also loved how he sort of uses Buddhism as a religious weapon.

 

[Sevier]

So, I hope you don't me derailing this slightly with a question: has anybody read "The language of fashion" by Roland Barthes? Is it interesting/insightful? Is it accessible to some with a minimal background continental philosophy or post-structuralism?

 

[dfagdfsh]

i dont think you can derail this thread.

my thought for the day: im sitting at my job watching all of our staff getting trained in 'diversity' and the people doing the training gave probably the worst explanation of discrimination and stereotypes ive ever heard.