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The Styleforum x Archibald Sneaker GMTO

stephenaf2003

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Anyone engaged, we are just prepping a new order for our driving shoes. The first run was exclusively the one with the laces, pictured below.... They did really well on the whole, the photography didn't flatter them at all which is something we are looking to rectify but aside from that they are really beautifuly made in Montegranaro, Italy.

We want to do a simpler one without laces as well.

https://www.archibaldlondon.com/us/collection/product/the-classic-driving-shoes-in-calfskin?color=brown

Just wondered what the general opinion on driving shoes were?
Pretty sure I’m not the norm, but I use driving shoes regularly. I prefer and only have manual clutch automobiles, and I pretty much only wear boots. Shifting gears can really scuff the back of my boots, unless I’m always being careful.

To remedy this, I use driving shoes for driving only. I’ve got severely flat feet, thus plantar fasciitis, so driving shoes are useless to try to walk around in. As a result of only using them for driving, I put zero thought into how stylish they are, only how comfortable they are to drive in. So, I only own a few pairs, one in the house, one in each car, for the many times I forget to put them on before going to the car.
 
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HRoi

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Traditional driving shoes (like Tod’s moccasin style) are hellacious to walk on. No cushioning and even worse than barefoot because the nibbed surfaces create an uneven surface to walk on.

they’ve also been supplanted by thin-soled, flexible upper “driving sneakers” (like Pilotis) that won’t slip off, are better to wear outside the car, and can be made flame-retardant.

but then archibald already makes a sneaker.

the conclusion of this thesis is that AoL already has driving shoes that are better than these driving shoes :laugh:
 

flx

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Pretty sure I’m not the norm, but I use driving shoes regularly. I prefer and only have manual clutch automobiles, and I pretty much only wear boots. Shifting gears can really scuff the back of my boots, unless I’m always being careful.

To remedy this, I use driving shoes for driving only. I’ve got severely flat feet, thus plantar fasciitis, so driving shoes are useless to try to walk around in. As a result of only using them for driving, I put zero thought into how stylish they are, only how comfortable they are to drive in. So, I only own a few pairs, one in the house, one in each car, for the many times I forget to put them on before going to the car.
The shifting / shoe scratching aspect is exactly the same that came to my mind last time on my trip (besides comfort in general).
 

XxLogo

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Pretty sure I’m not the norm, but I use driving shoes regularly. I prefer and only have manual clutch automobiles, and I pretty much only wear boots. Shifting gears can really scuff the back of my boots, unless I’m always being careful.

To remedy this, I use driving shoes for driving only. I’ve got severely flat feet, thus plantar fasciitis, so driving shoes are useless to try to walk around in. As a result of only using them for driving, I put zero thought into how stylish they are, only how comfortable they are to drive in. So, I only own a few pairs, one in the house, one in each car, for the many times I forget to put them on before going to the car.
I can definitely see the use of them for a manual vehicle, isn't that what they are designed for? Since I really only drive automatic's as cars to me are only to get from point A to B, I don't really have the risk of scratching my shoes, only really the heel blocks if anything which is an easy fix.
 

stephenaf2003

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I can definitely see the use of them for a manual vehicle, isn't that what they are designed for? Since I really only drive automatic's as cars to me are only to get from point A to B, I don't really have the risk of scratching my shoes, only really the heel blocks if anything which is an easy fix.
I honestly have no idea if they were, but they do work really well for me.
 

ThePetros

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Traditional driving shoes (like Tod’s moccasin style) are hellacious to walk on. No cushioning and even worse than barefoot because the nibbed surfaces create an uneven surface to walk on.

they’ve also been supplanted by thin-soled, flexible upper “driving sneakers” (like Pilotis) that won’t slip off, are better to wear outside the car, and can be made flame-retardant.

but then archibald already makes a sneaker.

the conclusion of this thesis is that AoL already has driving shoes that are better than these driving shoes :laugh:
There are ways to resolve this. Minnetonka for example have a double bottom driving mocc which is insanely good value for money. It replaces the nibs for a sturdy but flexible double layers sole. My old ones lasted over 6 years of a hell of a beating.

the Tods I bought are of a similar design. But getting to @ArchibaldRoh comment...

What would be the ultimate driving shoe? One purely for looks?Tods does that pretty well right now. One for durability?Not really the purpose of the shoe. Is it a matter of price? Minnetonka does great here.

All I know is that if anyone does go for it, those nibs definitely need not apply.
 

ArchibaldRoh

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There are ways to resolve this. Minnetonka for example have a double bottom driving mocc which is insanely good value for money. It replaces the nibs for a sturdy but flexible double layers sole. My old ones lasted over 6 years of a hell of a beating.

the Tods I bought are of a similar design. But getting to @ArchibaldRoh comment...

What would be the ultimate driving shoe? One purely for looks?Tods does that pretty well right now. One for durability?Not really the purpose of the shoe. Is it a matter of price? Minnetonka does great here.

All I know is that if anyone does go for it, those nibs definitely need not apply.
The Gommino from Tod's is a solid, solid pair. The ones from Car Shoe are of a much better quality overall

The driving shoe is not a pair to be worn in the park, not something to go for a run in and yes was designed for driving but is very versatile, iis super comfortable and stylish. I think they are great for lighter applications and don't really have an alternative as such.

We saw the Tod's was cutting some corners in ensuring quality and the maker in Montegranaro was a real stickler so we looked to do a higher quality version and of course pair that with our pricing model you end up with a better made product for half or sometimes a third of the price of the Tod's. Better leathers etc... but I am not so happy with just the classic style and colours we have up so far and so wanted to add to the current collection.
 

ThePetros

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The Gommino from Tod's is a solid, solid pair. The ones from Car Shoe are of a much better quality overall

The driving shoe is not a pair to be worn in the park, not something to go for a run in and yes was designed for driving but is very versatile, iis super comfortable and stylish. I think they are great for lighter applications and don't really have an alternative as such.

We saw the Tod's was cutting some corners in ensuring quality and the maker in Montegranaro was a real stickler so we looked to do a higher quality version and of course pair that with our pricing model you end up with a better made product for half or sometimes a third of the price of the Tod's. Better leathers etc... but I am not so happy with just the classic style and colours we have up so far and so wanted to add to the current collection.
This all might be true but there are two things that Tods has over this. It’s a big brand than can deal with these issues and a general reputation for quality.

like I said, I’m not he biggest fan of the nib sole. But if I would get a nib sole shoe, it would likely be Tods because of the two reasons above. indeed, also why i bought mine.

from a marketing perspective, it would help AoL to show how the shoes are put through their paces. How do they look after normal use?What’s better about the quality? Is it more durable than Tods? Prove it.

with the SF-01, you found a shoe that has a margom sole, again - trusted. Same goes for the HW-01 - Adriano’s speciality. If the driving shoes were double bottomed or have a rubber sole,I’d probably feel differently.

i could just be talking out of my ass here. Curious to know what you all think.
 

ArchibaldRoh

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This all might be true but there are two things that Tods has over this. It’s a big brand than can deal with these issues and a general reputation for quality.

like I said, I’m not he biggest fan of the nib sole. But if I would get a nib sole shoe, it would likely be Tods because of the two reasons above. indeed, I also why i bought mine.

from a marketing perspective, it would help AoL to show how the shoes are put through their paces. How do they look after normal use?What’s better about the quality? Is it more durable than Tods? Prove it.

with the SF-01, you found a shoe that has a margom sole, again - trusted. Same goes for the HW-01 - Adriano’s speciality. If the driving shoes were double bottomed or have a rubber sole,I’d probably feel differently.

i could just be talking out of my ass here. Curious to know what you all think.
I don't think it would be fair to say our soles are better than Tod's. We have to be realistic of what we are saying here... I think they are exactly the same.

The leathers and suedes, they are better than Tod's but that is a small win. Without the price point there is nothing ultra special going on.

The aim of Archibald is at a certain point regardless of product it serves as a quality guarantee. That is what we are going for.

This doesn't mean we are incapable of mistakes but rather recognition for quality, craftsmanship and finally as a value proposition there is nothing better, ever.

I don't see us grabbing customers because they want a pair of Tod's for half the price... he/she who wants a Tod's should go get a Tod's. We can only hope to be the more intelligent purchasing decision for those who have the confidence to look past the label and decide on a value play. Having said that, Tod's are so often on sale that I am sure getting a seasonal pair for $250 on sale isn't difficult at all. Which then makes our proposition a little less attractive. Fortunately,

I think driving shoes or the classic car shoe has to have the nibs. Doing a version with a full sole isn't the real thing... I get there is a market for it but it's not the way the shoe is intended to be and there are plenty other types that can fulfil the purpose. Also the nibs are just so comfortable and a nice different wearing experience.
 
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ThePetros

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I don't think it would be fair to say our soles are better than Tod's. We have to be realistic of what we are saying here... I think they are exactly the same.

The leathers and suedes, they are better than Tod's but that is a small win. Without the price point there is nothing ultra special going on.

The aim of Archibald is at a certain point regardless of product it serves as a quality guarantee. That is what we are going for.

This doesn't mean we are incapable of mistakes but rather recognition for quality, craftsmanship and finally as a value proposition there is nothing better, ever.

I don't see us grabbing customers because they want a pair of Tod's for half the price... he/she who wants a Tod's should go get a Tod's. We can only hope to be the more intelligent purchasing decision for those who have the confidence to look past the label and decide on a value play. Having said that, Tod's are so often on sale that I am sure getting a seasonal pair for $250 on sale isn't difficult at all. Which then makes our proposition a little less attractive. Fortunately,

I think driving shoes or the classic car shoe has to have the nibs. Doing a version with a full sole isn't the real thing... I get there is a market for it but it's not the way the shoe is intended to be and there are plenty other types that can fulfil the purpose. Also the nibs are just so comfortable and a nice different wearing experience.
I understand everything you’re getting at , but I think the point of quality on the sole is really key here - which wasn’t really addressed.

With all AoL’s other lines we found soles that were already known to be reliably good. If you’re saying your nib sole is just as good as Tod’s, prove it. We already trust you on leather quality, and build quality, and your prices are always right. But when like you said Tod’s can be had on seasonal sales for around the same price - why would your customer take the risk? I bought mine 2 months ago for under the $250 mark to be frank.

This needs a lot more fleshing out. This is nothing short of an extravagance purchase. Why would someone risk it one something they don’t know when they can get something they are sure of?
 

ArchibaldRoh

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I understand everything you’re getting at , but I think the point of quality on the sole is really key here - which wasn’t really addressed.

With all AoL’s other lines we found soles that were already fairly reliables good. If you’re saying your nib sole is just as good as Tod’s, prove it. We already trust you on leather quality, and build quality, and your prices are always right. But when like you said Tod’s can be had on seasonal sales for around the same price - why would your customer take the risk? I bought mine 2 months ago for under the $250 mark to be frank.

This needs a lot more fleshing out. This is nothing short of an extravagance purchase. Why would someone risk it one something they don’t know when they can get something they are sure of?
I guess that is part of the entire process of building a brand. It will prove itself as more customer purchase it. Like I said we are almost out of the first run and the question was based around adding a design without laces. I don't know what the term is for the ones with the plain front that resemble loafers.

You asking us to prove things is something I have no answer to. I don't know how to prove it and content is already quite a struggle for us. I guess it is part of the whole skepticism that makes it much more difficult for smaller brands these days especially ones who make quality claims. Naked is helping dramatically with battling the skepticism though.

It is really interesting through the exchanges we sometimes have I am understand more that you aren't a customer for many of our lines. You need granular validation on individual product and that makes you a different kind of shopper altogether which is very interesting and it actually has taken me a while to understand that. I relish the challenge. My approach to shopping is I start identifying and connecting with a brand and then make it a go-to but I suppose not everyone thinks like that either unless they truly identify with the brand's values.

Yes but seasonal Tod's are marked down for good reason. They actually make most of their money on the classics when it comes to the gommino. Retail is a horrible game haha.
 

HRoi

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I guess my observation is that I fou d it odd to be one of the first lines for a startup, because I didn’t realize there would be that much of a market for these things. I won’t criticize anyone who says they need driving Mocs - driving is a task that needs safety and attention so do what you gotta do. But personally speaking I’ve driven manuals all my life and anything from flip-flops to combat boots have worked ok. I only use specialized shoes on the track because of the need to heel-toe and constantly ‘dance’ on the pedals and even then they won’t be gomminis because their heels slip off and don’t hold in place laterally.

I did have a phase when I tried them out and found them unwearable around town. So I like the other SF’ers analogy of this being the women’s stiletto - made for fashion and good for short walks to your seat, but nothing else.

Although it seems like the first run is proving popular so maybe what do I know. I wish you guys the best of luck with this.
 

ArchibaldRoh

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I guess my observation is that I fou d it odd to be one of the first lines for a startup, because I didn’t realize there would be that much of a market for these things. I won’t criticize anyone who says they need driving Mocs - driving is a task that needs safety and attention so do what you gotta do. But personally speaking I’ve driven manuals all my life and anything from flip-flops to combat boots have worked ok. I only use specialized shoes on the track because of the need to heel-toe and constantly ‘dance’ on the pedals and even then they won’t be gomminis because their heels slip off and don’t hold in place laterally.

I did have a phase when I tried them out and found them unwearable around town. So I like the other SF’ers analogy of this being the women’s stiletto - made for fashion and good for short walks to your seat, but nothing else.

Although it seems like the first run is proving popular so maybe what do I know. I wish you guys the best of luck with this.
That was ultra helpful, thank you so much.

I think if we move ahead we will prioritise smaller sizes for women as they were quite popular amongst the female customers.
 

ThePetros

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I guess that is part of the entire process of building a brand. It will prove itself as more customer purchase it. Like I said we are almost out of the first run and the question was based around adding a design without laces. I don't know what the term is for the ones with the plain front that resemble loafers.

You asking us to prove things is something I have no answer to. I don't know how to prove it and content is already quite a struggle for us. I guess it is part of the whole skepticism that makes it much more difficult for smaller brands these days especially ones who make quality claims. Naked is helping dramatically with battling the skepticism though.

It is really interesting through the exchanges we sometimes have I am understand more that you aren't a customer for many of our lines. You need granular validation on individual product and that makes you a different kind of shopper altogether which is very interesting and it actually has taken me a while to understand that. I relish the challenge. My approach to shopping is I start identifying and connecting with a brand and then make it a go-to but I suppose not everyone thinks like that either unless they truly identify with the brand's values.

Yes but seasonal Tod's are marked down for good reason. They actually make most of their money on the classics when it comes to the gommino. Retail is a horrible game haha.
I’m glad they are popular on the site and have been successful. SFers are definitely a different beast entirely and only because the topic came up did we find ourselves down this path.

To your point, re: not having an answer - I don’t think that’s true. Similar to what you did with Rose Anvil, the driving shoes can be sent out for review, discussion, and improvement. No luxury product sold online only can survive without these networks of reviewers, rating, and trusted sources to give their seal of approval. That’s a lot of the validation SFers need to make the savviest choice on a purchase. Most of the time, this comes straight from people within the forum.
 

Jmm722

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I finally wore my shoes because I didn't want to go through the returns process for the tongue issue.

1. Relacing helped with the tongue issue, but the laces are definitely too short. I see this is being corrected in V2

2. The shoes are incredibly comfortable.

I'm probably buying a pair of V2 with the code. Are there any other possible leathers being added to the V2 pair or is it the same? I saw there was a post about experimenting with new learher but wasnt sure what shoe it was for.
 

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