The Styleforum x Archibald Hand-Welted Dress Shoes GMTO

[ArchibaldRoh]

@ArchibaldRoh just getting this thread back on track, namely the limited time GMTO offering; could you post some additional photos of the shoes in a non-studio setting?

We are just awaiting their arrival from the photographer, its a all a bit tedious in lockdown. Should be here by tomorrow.
Excited as we now have a new solution for photography and content which will allow us to communicate products better.

 

[ArchibaldRoh]

I was expecting a counter-argument where "best" is pegged to the leather quality of, say Main d'Or or JLP bespoke. But it seems he was really talking about the level of say, EG mainline. TBF, the comments he made in this thread about the finishing and construction, I do agree somewhat, and those can be much more easily discerned from photos and videos. But if you are aiming for the quality of $1400 RTW shoes the likes of EG and JL, then hand-welting and the lack of 'gemming' (for those who have been here long enough to remember) give your shoes an edge over those brands. Indeed, whether it is worth $1400 kind of rests solely on leather quality, beyond subjective aesthetics such as last shape. So yes, I agree this entire debate is warranted, but it is unfortunate that there is no real closure.

A user @ixk was gracious enough to do a review and post his thoughts a little while ago and we have tried since then to make the improvements he suggested. Was great for us to understand the game a little more and ask Adriano the right questions to make it all better and some great suggestions to improve the collection.

https://www.styleforum.net/threads/...n-official-vendor-thread.646793/post-10027235

 

[OrlandoMo]

@ArchibaldRoh just getting this thread back on track, namely the limited time GMTO offering; could you post some additional photos of the shoes in a non-studio setting?

got these for now but I will surely send more once we get them back in London, especially pictures of us wearing them

 

[CarltonBNE]

got these for now but I will surely send more once we get them back in London, especially pictures of us wearing them

View attachment 1420900
View attachment 1420901 View attachment 1420902

They all look amazing. The suede is eye catching in natural light.

 

[OrlandoMo]

They all look amazing. The suede is eye catching in natural light.

Agree! The cordovan too, in real life is something unbelievable... We are buying some more leather from Horween this Saturday, it's simply amazing

 

[CWV]

@ArchibaldRoh just getting this thread back on track, namely the limited time GMTO offering; could you post some additional photos of the shoes in a non-studio setting?

I was wondering the same. I’m between Tan pebbles and anticsto burgundy. I would love to see them in some normal serving photos.

 

[JohnMRobie]

To be fair, I did post the article he had written into our thread and asked the community if he happened to be on the forum.

Again, my only point is if you are going to challenge a claim a company makes or make a comment about x or y and pride yourself as a product journalist providing their community with honest and impartial reviews then at the very least examine the item in real life before doing so.

The quack keeps focussing on my being upset or taking it personally because he said something negative but I am not. Ultimately if someone decides to order something they can always decipher it for themselves and if unhappy or feel like we aren't quite what we say we are, return the item. I am simply calling him out on his process and questioning his approach to conclusions and journalism.

His lack of objectivity is further illustrated by his insistence that our business model is not possible if we really did whst we say we do. This without once handling a single product we sell.

I use an example of the vicuna scarf to highlight how no one does what we do...and point to real journalism in the WSJ. His answer does not focus on the fact Vicuna costs a lot of money and it is true no brand in the world is selling it at less than a multiple of our prices, but instead his come-back is simply the WSJ has featured other brands making claims. But the fact is I purposelly chose an item which you can't mess around with, 100 percent vicuna is 100 percent vicuna.

The guy lacks logic, has no process, claims to be able to gain tactile insight from pictures and make comments about materials from them and is simply a quack. Oh and refuses to take a challenge and review the shoes in real life even though once he does he can really say whatever he wants and I have nothing I can say in return because once again I have no issue with a negative comment or a total annhilation of product, I have issue with this quack parading around like an impartial real journalist when he is simply a quack poser protecting self interest and some ad revenue.

I was seriously contemplating ordering a pair of your shoes to try out - this thread has me entirely rethinking that prospect. You got a free promo based on publicly available information, not a review, on a widely read shoe blog that says "hey these shoes look like a great deal" and your reaction is to whine for days on end and attack the guy who gave you the positive PR.

 

[ArchibaldRoh]

I was seriously contemplating ordering a pair of your shoes to try out - this thread has me entirely rethinking that prospect. You got a free promo based on publicly available information, not a review, on a widely read shoe blog that says "hey these shoes look like a great deal" and your reaction is to whine for days on end and attack the guy who gave you the positive PR.
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I am sorry you feel that way.

I can't respect the blog not because he said something negative or positive but because he defended his approach and conclusions vehemently and refused to see the logic behind a very simple point. He continuously offered counter-arguments that confirmed his obvious bias and at no point had the graciousness to simply say "hey send me a shoe and let me take a look". I don't see it as positive at all as I promise you, we are not selling a shoe worth 450 and if we are, then we have to either re-think everything going on or shut down.

Not changing my stance for a few sales. I believe one has to stick by their values.

 

[OrlandoMo]

Some pictures I took but for sure will take some more once we get the shoes here

I was wondering the same. I’m between Tan pebbles and anticsto burgundy. I would love to see them in some normal serving photos.

 

[deliku]

Personally, I had already read that article on shoegazing and (even though I couldn’t remember the specifics of the article) it had left me with the impression that the shoes were so-so and nothing all that special. So I’m glad that Archibald responded back because it made me look twice and reconsider. In hindsight, it would have been more suspicious to me had they said nothing in response because that silence could be interpreted as agreement.

I mean, if someone were saying something I thought untrue of MY stuff I would certainly push back. And I’ve seen Jesper react the same way in defending the quality of Yanko shoes for example; a product which he sells.

And that leads me to another point. While I will always be a fan of shoegazing and the amazing coverage it provides for brands around the world, it still needs to be said that Jesper works for a competing brand selling shoes that appeal to the same market and price point. Knowing that, it would be foolish to assume he is purely unbiased in his opinions, especially if he is making comments (judgments?) about a direct competitor.

It should also be said that Jesper is not alone in that regard as there are other shoemakers or retailers of a brand with their own blogs (such as J. Fitzpatrick or Misiu Academy) and they comment on other brands all the time.

I suppose this is all just a very long way of saying “carry on” ?

 

[CarltonBNE]

I was seriously contemplating ordering a pair of your shoes to try out - this thread has me entirely rethinking that prospect. You got a free promo based on publicly available information, not a review, on a widely read shoe blog that says "hey these shoes look like a great deal" and your reaction is to whine for days on end and attack the guy who gave you the positive PR.
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I view it as a disagreement that has escalated unintentionally. I've been guilty of being drawn into such online arguments before. What is clear however is both Jesper of Shoegazing and Rohan from Archibald London are very passionate about the subject. I try to focus on the positives: Archibald are trying to provide a quality product at a reasonable price and they work closely with the shoemaker to refine the product (including taking on customer's comments). I also like the fact the shoemaker is a smaller family run business. I have a pair of Archibald cap-toe Oxfords and I think they're great (full disclosure - I'm no expert on leather or shoes, I'm just a humble enthusiast).

 

[shirtingfantasy]

I just came across this thread because it was highlighted on the SF frontpage, and I have a general interest in shoes.

Disclaimer: My major interest is in shirts. I own shoes from various brands include a pair of TLB Artista - but that's my only purchase from Skolyx. I do have shoes from Italian and British makers that are considered okay, and I own handwelted shoes (although not too many). I don't sell shoes.

What interested me most about this handwelted project is the leather quality and attention paid to making the best product possible, putting cost concern at a very low position (at least as claimed).

@ArchibaldRoh may I know

- What approximately is the size of the calfskin you use? (younger calves, small skin, and translates into finer creases in the long run)

- How many pairs of wholecut shoes (in UK 8, let's say) do you cut per skin? (the more selective the maker is about the leather, the better the final outcome as he can avoid imperfections and loose grains)

- Would you consider selling lasted shoe trees with these quality shoes? (most of the brands I purchase from sell shoes with lasted shoe trees, to ensure the leather upper gets stretched out of unsightly creases when shoes are not worn, to allow shoes to dry on proper support so they can preserve their beautiful shape for a long time - or else there is no point in getting handwelted shoes for many potential resoles)

 

[shirtingfantasy]

While browsing your new HW01 model I noticed the somewhat interesting comparison table attached:

- How come handwelted shoes are compared to Blake (yes, most Berluti ready-to-wear shoes are Blake, NOT Goodyear as in the table) or calfskin shoes?

- A more suitable comparison should be with Vass or Enzo Bonafe? Both of them offer wholecut dress shoes in handwelted construction.

- And, honestly, from what I know, Berluti and Tom Ford do not offer shell cordovan in their regular offerings. There is no shell cordovan option in even the special order options from Berluti.

- Sometimes just choosing the most "luxury-looking" comparator may be fine (say, if you compare a calf wholecut to Berluti Alessandro), but sometimes one is not comparing exactly the same thing (since they are not even made in the same way/ in the same material)

=====

More relevant examples:

1. Vass cordovan wholecut

2. Enzo Bonafe cordovan wholecut (via Skoaktiebolaget, blogged by Shoe Snob who owns his own brand in the USA)

Enzo Bonafe Brown Cordovan for Skoaktiebolaget

The Shoe Snob blog is about seeing men wearing better shoes through education and sharing what is out there that deserves recognition.

www.theshoesnobblog.com

Price is about: EUR 625 (base cost) + EUR 395 (cordovan shoes surcharge), plus 20% Made-to-order surcharge

Enzo Bonafè Made To Order

Enzo Bonafé runs a very small scale operation out of Bologna, Italy. The MTO surcharge is very affordable, only 20% of the base model.

www.skoaktiebolaget.com

 

[dhoff10]

While browsing your new HW01 model I noticed the somewhat interesting comparison table attached:

- How come handwelted shoes are compared to Blake (yes, most Berluti ready-to-wear shoes are Blake, NOT Goodyear as in the table) or calfskin shoes?

- A more suitable comparison should be with Vass or Enzo Bonafe? Both of them offer wholecut dress shoes in handwelted construction.

View attachment 1422068

- And, honestly, from what I know, Berluti and Tom Ford do not offer shell cordovan in their regular offerings. There is no shell cordovan option in even the special order options from Berluti.

- Sometimes just choosing the most "luxury-looking" comparator may be fine (say, if you compare a calf wholecut to Berluti Alessandro), but sometimes one is not comparing exactly the same thing (since they are not even made in the same way/ in the same material)

=====

More relevant examples:

1. Vass cordovan wholecut

View attachment 1422069

2. Enzo Bonafe cordovan wholecut (via Skoaktiebolaget, blogged by Shoe Snob who owns his own brand in the USA)

Enzo Bonafe Brown Cordovan for Skoaktiebolaget

The Shoe Snob blog is about seeing men wearing better shoes through education and sharing what is out there that deserves recognition.

www.theshoesnobblog.com

View attachment 1422070

Price is about: EUR 625 (base cost) + EUR 395 (cordovan shoes surcharge), plus 20% Made-to-order surcharge

Enzo Bonafè Made To Order

Enzo Bonafé runs a very small scale operation out of Bologna, Italy. The MTO surcharge is very affordable, only 20% of the base model.

www.skoaktiebolaget.com

Here on StyFo the comparison to EB and Vass had been made a few times, but outside Berluti is probably a more recognizable luxury brand tragic as it may be. In general I find the comparisons on Archibald's site to be sincere and useful. My first purchase was for a little cashmere scarf Archibald was selling for $60, and claimed Burberry was selling the same scarf for $470, and provided a link. I clicked it and sure enough it was Burberry's page for the same scarf made in the same mill with the same cashmere for $470. I knew I found a brand I liked at that point.

 

[shirtingfantasy]

Here on StyFo the comparison to EB and Vass had been made a few times, but outside Berluti is probably a more recognizable luxury brand tragic as it may be. In general I find the comparisons on Archibald's site to be sincere and useful. My first purchase was for a little cashmere scarf Archibald was selling for $60, and claimed Burberry was selling the same scarf for $470, and provided a link. I clicked it and sure enough it was Burberry's page for the same scarf made in the same mill with the same cashmere for $470. I knew I found a brand I liked at that point.

That's a real tragedy.

But for really premium (read: to those who care about handmade shoes) features like handwelting, I do think more effort should be spent to educate those who do not know, and avoid inadvertently propagating the misconception that those luxury mass-market shoes are "the same" but just sold more expensively. Handwelted shoes are qualitatively better in terms of construction.

To be quite honest, the "luxury handwelted RTW" I can immediately think of would either be Santoni Limited Edition or Paolo Scafora ready-to-wear. They may not be the most famous luxury brands, but still "luxury" in a way as they have more marketing and retail outlets.

Exceptional products deserve exceptional comparison, even with a bit of education (which can be an uphill task). Or else the casual buyer looking for "cordovan wholecut" can only find these...

(AND CARMINA SHOES ARE NOT HANDWELTED!!!)