The StyleForum Working Hierarchical Suit Quality List (SFWHSQL!)

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by Cognacad, Sep 20, 2009.

Tags:
  1. Newcomer

    Newcomer Senior member

    Messages:
    5,234
    Likes Received:
    4,697
    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2009
    Excellent [*****] (i.e. Suits made this well are far and few between, if money is no object your closet would be full of these. If money is a factor then these suits could sell for much, much more. This category should be kept to only a few items)
    - Kiton
    - Oxxford
    - Despos
    - Brioni
    - Cesare Attolini Napoli
    - Borrelli

    Very Good [****] (i.e. Few suits match the quality of the ones in this category or prices could be raised significantly and would still be good value).
    - Sartoria Partenopea
    - RLPL
    - Sartoria Attolini Napoli
    - Isaia

    Good [***] (i.e. Quality is superior to most suits or the value of these suits is above average).
    - Caruso
    - Canali
    - Corneliani
    - Hickey Freeman Mainline
    - Brooks Brothers Golden Fleece
    - Brooks Brothers Black Fleece
    - Zegna


    Satisfactory [**] (i.e. The "Average" Brands. Quality is acceptable, and the price matches it).
    - Cantarelli
    - Boglioli (might not be not in terms of construction, but def for cut and fabric)
    - Brooks Brothers 1818
    - Paul Smith
    - RLBL
    - H. Freeman
    - Samuelsohn

    Mediocre[*] (i.e. Suits that should usually be avoided. Quality leaves much to be desired or prices are usually higher than they should be for such a suit).
    - Hugo Boss
    - Banana Republic Monogram
    - Lauren Ralph Lauren-



    Bad [ ](i.e. Don't buy. Quality is overall bad, or quality is nowhere near the price asked for).
    - H&M
    - Banana Republic
    - Calvin Klein
    - Tasso Elba
    - Nautica

    Bumped Samuelsohn down one, mainly because of cut. Also, I think there should be a tier between very good and good, as I really would not put Isaia on the same level as Hickey Freeman and Canali and Zegna (if we are only counting mainline). In addition, I really don't know if I can put Isaia on the same line as RLPL and Sartoria Partenopea and Sartoria Attolini. I bumped them up anyways though.
     


  2. Flieger

    Flieger Senior member

    Messages:
    3,246
    Likes Received:
    18
    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2007
    Excellent [*****] (i.e. Suits made this well are far and few between, if money is no object your closet would be full of these. If money is a factor then these suits could sell for much, much more. This category should be kept to only a few items)
    - Kiton
    - Oxxford
    - Despos
    - Brioni
    - Cesare Attolini Napoli
    - Borrelli

    Very Good [****] (i.e. Few suits match the quality of the ones in this category or prices could be raised significantly and would still be good value).
    - Sartoria Partenopea
    - RLPL
    - Sartoria Attolini Napoli
    - Isaia
    - Caruso Sartoria Parma
    - Pal Zileri Sartoriale
    - Ravazzolo?

    Good [***] (i.e. Quality is superior to most suits or the value of these suits is above average).
    - Caruso
    - Canali
    - Corneliani
    - Hickey Freeman Mainline
    - Brooks Brothers Golden Fleece
    - Brooks Brothers Black Fleece
    - Ermenegildo Zegna


    Satisfactory [**] (i.e. The "Average" Brands. Quality is acceptable, and the price matches it).
    - Cantarelli
    - Boglioli (might not be not in terms of construction, but def for cut and fabric)
    - Brooks Brothers 1818
    - Paul Smith
    - RLBL
    - H. Freeman
    - Samuelsohn
    - Z-Zegna (sometimes satisfactory sometimes mediocre)

    Mediocre[*] (i.e. Suits that should usually be avoided. Quality leaves much to be desired or prices are usually higher than they should be for such a suit).
    - Hugo Boss
    - Banana Republic Monogram
    - Lauren Ralph Lauren-



    Bad [ ](i.e. Don't buy. Quality is overall bad, or quality is nowhere near the price asked for).
    - H&M
    - Banana Republic
    - Calvin Klein
    - Tasso Elba
    - Nautica

    I added Caruso sartoria parma because of the significant difference with mainline Caruso (mainly in the wonderful shoulder construction)
    Added Ermenegildo Zegna instead of just Zegna to clarify the addition of Z-Zegna
    Added Pal Zileri Sartoriale, I own a pair of pants with this label that is really really beautifully constructed.
    Added Ravazzollo: perhaps someone else can rate them for us?
     


  3. Newcomer

    Newcomer Senior member

    Messages:
    5,234
    Likes Received:
    4,697
    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2009
    Excellent [*****] (i.e. Suits made this well are far and few between, if money is no object your closet would be full of these. If money is a factor then these suits could sell for much, much more. This category should be kept to only a few items)
    - Kiton
    - Oxxford
    - Despos
    - Brioni
    - Cesare Attolini Napoli
    - Borrelli

    Very Good [****] (i.e. Few suits match the quality of the ones in this category or prices could be raised significantly and would still be good value).
    - Sartoria Partenopea
    - RLPL
    - Sartoria Attolini Napoli
    - Isaia
    - Caruso Sartoria Parma
    - Pal Zileri Sartoriale
    - Ravazzolo?
    - Zegna Couture

    Good [***] (i.e. Quality is superior to most suits or the value of these suits is above average).
    - Caruso
    - Canali
    - Corneliani
    - Hickey Freeman Mainline
    - Brooks Brothers Golden Fleece
    - Brooks Brothers Black Fleece
    - Ermenegildo Zegna


    Satisfactory [**] (i.e. The "Average" Brands. Quality is acceptable, and the price matches it).
    - Cantarelli
    - Boglioli (might not be not in terms of construction, but def for cut and fabric)
    - Brooks Brothers 1818
    - Paul Smith
    - RLBL
    - H. Freeman
    - Samuelsohn
    - Z-Zegna (sometimes satisfactory sometimes mediocre)

    Mediocre[*] (i.e. Suits that should usually be avoided. Quality leaves much to be desired or prices are usually higher than they should be for such a suit).
    - Hugo Boss
    - Banana Republic Monogram
    - Lauren Ralph Lauren-



    Bad [ ](i.e. Don't buy. Quality is overall bad, or quality is nowhere near the price asked for).
    - H&M
    - Banana Republic
    - Calvin Klein
    - Tasso Elba
    - Nautica
     


  4. AgWagon

    AgWagon Member

    Messages:
    15
    Likes Received:
    1
    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2009
    This is one of the most useful threads on this forum. Please Stickify!!
     


  5. unjung

    unjung Senior member

    Messages:
    6,561
    Likes Received:
    12
    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2008
    Location:
    Madrid
    I don't think it's reasonable to put H&M or BR in the "bad" category, given that they are recommended as entry-level suits on nearly a daily basis...
     


  6. furo

    furo Senior member

    Messages:
    6,192
    Likes Received:
    231
    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2009
    Excellent [*****] (i.e. Suits made this well are far and few between, if money is no object your closet would be full of these. If money is a factor then these suits could sell for much, much more. This category should be kept to only a few items)
    - Kiton
    - Oxxford
    - Despos
    - Brioni
    - Cesare Attolini Napoli
    - Borrelli

    Very Good [****] (i.e. Few suits match the quality of the ones in this category or prices could be raised significantly and would still be good value).
    - Sartoria Partenopea
    - RLPL
    - Sartoria Attolini Napoli
    - Isaia
    - Caruso Sartoria Parma
    - Pal Zileri Sartoriale
    - Ravazzolo?
    - Zegna Couture

    Good [***] (i.e. Quality is superior to most suits or the value of these suits is above average).
    - Caruso
    - Canali
    - Corneliani
    - Hickey Freeman Mainline
    - Brooks Brothers Golden Fleece
    - Brooks Brothers Black Fleece
    - Ermenegildo Zegna
    - RLBL


    Satisfactory [**] (i.e. The "Average" Brands. Quality is acceptable, and the price matches it).
    - Cantarelli
    - Boglioli (might not be not in terms of construction, but def for cut and fabric)
    - Brooks Brothers 1818
    - Paul Smith
    - H. Freemann
    - Hickey Freeman LTD (Half Canvas)
    - Samuelsohn
    - Z-Zegna (sometimes satisfactory sometimes mediocre)

    Mediocre[*] (i.e. Suits that should usually be avoided. Quality leaves much to be desired or prices are usually higher than they should be for such a suit).
    - Hugo Boss
    - Banana Republic Monogram
    - Lauren Ralph Lauren-



    Bad [ ](i.e. Don't buy. Quality is overall bad, or quality is nowhere near the price asked for).
    - H&M
    - Banana Republic
    - Calvin Klein
    - Tasso Elba
    - Nautica

    **Bumped RLBL up one notch; I don't know how it can be ranked in line with stuff that is all fused and half canvas.

    There should also be a minimal qualifier to make into the top 2-3 notches such as canvassing being full. And I second the notion that the entire list should be only RTW or MTM at a minimum to exclude bespoke Saville Row stuff, et al
     


  7. bigbris1

    bigbris1 Senior member

    Messages:
    7,345
    Likes Received:
    8
    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2007
    Location:
    Opulence
    I haven't read thru all of this crap but this list is BS in that posters should be required to post their experience behind the brands they ranked. I think, many of these are just folks shuffling brands they either know from SF or else. For instance, those of you who ranked Samuelsohn as good or satisfactory, WTF is wrong with you??

    Remember, the OP listed value, i.e. bang for the buck, as part of the quotient here.
     


  8. mafoofan

    mafoofan THE FOO Dubiously Honored

    Messages:
    20,840
    Likes Received:
    2,053
    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2007
    This list is the reason why the other forums make fun of us.

    I don't see how RLBL can be at the same level as Golden Fleece, or why RLPL is below Kiton/Oxxford/Brioni.

    Also, Despos is an anomaly. If you include bespoke, you'll only further confuse the list. Oxxford, Kiton, and the like, should be below Despos.
     


  9. sho'nuff

    sho'nuff grrrrrrrr!!

    Messages:
    22,225
    Likes Received:
    14
    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2006
    Location:
    Irvine
    This list is the reason why the other forums make fun of us.

    I don't see how RLBL can be at the same level as Golden Fleece, or why RLPL is below Kiton/Oxxford/Brioni.
    Also, Despos is an anomaly. If you include bespoke, you'll only further confuse the list. Oxxford, Kiton, and the like, should be below Despos.


    i could understand if due to pure fabrics but i agree as well, it should be on par with the upper echelon
     


  10. Sanddog

    Sanddog Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    77
    Likes Received:
    1
    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2009
    Location:
    NYC
    This list is the reason why the other forums make fun of us.

    I don't see how RLBL can be at the same level as Golden Fleece, or why RLPL is below Kiton/Oxxford/Brioni.

    Also, Despos is an anomaly. If you include bespoke, you'll only further confuse the list. Oxxford, Kiton, and the like, should be below Despos.


    i could understand if due to pure fabrics but i agree as well, it should be on par with the upper echelon

    As a relative newbie to this stuff who has spent a lot of time searching through the archives, I see this thread as having potentially significant value for people like me *if* veterans like you two would be generous enough to actually modify the list itself.

    Below is the list restated, with modifications to reflect your comments; I am *not* inserting my personal opinion. If I've misunderstood, please correct me. I, for one, would be grateful if you guys would take a harder look at the list and give it a thorough overall, or even start over in a new thread.

    For what it's worth, I think it's a mistake to try to factor in "value for money" because prices vary. Easier to rank makers / lines by quality and then let people comparison shop on price themselves. (E.g., if I see a suit in a superior category priced the same as one in a lower tier, then I know I'm looking at a bargain...)

    The list:
    Excellent [*****] (i.e. Suits made this well are far and few between, if money is no object your closet would be full of these. If money is a factor then these suits could sell for much, much more. This category should be kept to only a few items)
    - Kiton
    - Oxxford
    - Brioni
    - Cesare Attolini Napoli
    - Borrelli
    - RLPL

    Very Good [****] (i.e. Few suits match the quality of the ones in this category or prices could be raised significantly and would still be good value).
    - Sartoria Partenopea

    - Sartoria Attolini Napoli
    - Isaia
    - Caruso Sartoria Parma
    - Pal Zileri Sartoriale
    - Ravazzolo?
    - Zegna Couture

    Good [***] (i.e. Quality is superior to most suits or the value of these suits is above average).
    - Caruso
    - Canali
    - Corneliani
    - Hickey Freeman Mainline
    - Brooks Brothers Golden Fleece
    - Brooks Brothers Black Fleece
    - Ermenegildo Zegna
    - Samuelsohn


    Satisfactory [**] (i.e. The "Average" Brands. Quality is acceptable, and the price matches it).
    - Cantarelli
    - Boglioli (might not be not in terms of construction, but def for cut and fabric)
    - Brooks Brothers 1818
    - Paul Smith
    - H. Freemann
    - Hickey Freeman LTD (Half Canvas)
    - RLBL
    - Z-Zegna (sometimes satisfactory sometimes mediocre)

    Mediocre[*] (i.e. Suits that should usually be avoided. Quality leaves much to be desired or prices are usually higher than they should be for such a suit).
    - Hugo Boss
    - Banana Republic Monogram
    - Lauren Ralph Lauren-



    Bad [ ](i.e. Don't buy. Quality is overall bad, or quality is nowhere near the price asked for).
    - H&M
    - Banana Republic
    - Calvin Klein
    - Tasso Elba
    - Nautica


    Again -- just trying to incorporate the opinions stated in this thread by guys we all know to be knowledgeable. Would love it Foo, bigbris, vox, manton, despos, iammatt, etc. would take a hard look at this list, for the benefit of those of us who are still learning.
     


  11. bigbris1

    bigbris1 Senior member

    Messages:
    7,345
    Likes Received:
    8
    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2007
    Location:
    Opulence
    Can we also take into consideration the price point some of these suits can be had for, in lieu of their MSRP? I wouldn't pay $500 for a LRL suit but they can be bought brand new for ~$150 all day long. That should be the real price we use to determine this list.
     


  12. furo

    furo Senior member

    Messages:
    6,192
    Likes Received:
    231
    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2009
    This list is the reason why the other forums make fun of us.

    I don't see how RLBL can be at the same level as Golden Fleece, or why RLPL is below Kiton/Oxxford/Brioni.


    Why can't RLBL be at the same level? You mention RLPL. Many of those suits are made by Caruso, who made a lot of Black Fleece as well as RLBL. So why would RLPL necessarily be above those other brands? Is there something I'm missing?

    I can understand if we are breaking it down to years of models and even seasons, since Black Fleece has undergone a lot of change (i.e. from made in Italy to the USA) as well as others. But what necessarily makes RLBL inferior or superior to BB Golden Fleece?

    I'd rank BB Black Fleece from 2007 above Golden Fleece (in terms of quality) but I can only bump one notch per day :wink:
     


  13. voxsartoria

    voxsartoria Goon member

    Messages:
    25,756
    Likes Received:
    117
    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2007
    Also, Despos is an anomaly.

    Wise words.


    - B
     


  14. voxsartoria

    voxsartoria Goon member

    Messages:
    25,756
    Likes Received:
    117
    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2007
    This is one of the most useful threads on this forum. Please Stickify!!

    Agreed.

    I am committing this whole list to memory, and even now, I am making up little flashcards to help the memorization process.


    - B
     


  15. mafoofan

    mafoofan THE FOO Dubiously Honored

    Messages:
    20,840
    Likes Received:
    2,053
    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2007
    Why can't RLBL be at the same level? You mention RLPL. Many of those suits are made by Caruso, who made a lot of Black Fleece as well as RLBL. So why would RLPL necessarily be above those other brands? Is there something I'm missing?

    I can understand if we are breaking it down to years of models and even seasons, since Black Fleece has undergone a lot of change (i.e. from made in Italy to the USA) as well as others. But what necessarily makes RLBL inferior or superior to BB Golden Fleece?

    I'd rank BB Black Fleece from 2007 above Golden Fleece (in terms of quality) but I can only bump one notch per day :wink:


    Maybe I have my facts wrong, but I was under the impression that RLPL suits are made by Santandrea (formerly St. Andrews), mostly if not exclusively. From what I've seen and heard, Santandrea suits are every bit as nice as Oxxford and Kiton.

    I am not familiar with the maker of RLBL suits, but the quality doesn't approach what I've seen from the makers mentioned above. I don't remember seeing any hand-stitching in the RLBL suits I've looked at.

    I know little to nothing about Black Fleece suits. Did I say something about them?
     


Share This Page

Styleforum is proudly sponsored by