The StyleForum Working Hierarchical Suit Quality List (SFWHSQL!)

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by Cognacad, Sep 20, 2009.

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  1. Mr.P

    Mr.P Senior member

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    I'd be interested in seeing where Tom Ford ends up. His suits are made by Zegna Couture, so the quality must be extraordinary. But in terms of overall value, I'm not sure he's up there with Kiton and and Brioni.
     


  2. Cognacad

    Cognacad Senior member

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    Excellent [*****] (i.e. Suits made this well are far and few between, if money is no object your closet would be full of these. If money is a factor then these suits could sell for much, much more. This category should be kept to only a few items)
    - Kiton
    - Oxxford
    - Despos
    - Brioni
    - Cesare Attolini Napoli
    - Borrelli

    Very Good [****] (i.e. Few suits match the quality of the ones in this category or prices could be raised significantly and would still be good value).
    - Sartoria Partenopea
    - RLPL
    - Sartoria Attolini Napoli


    Good [***] (i.e. Quality is superior to most suits or the value of these suits is above average).
    - Samuelsohn
    - Caruso
    - Canali
    - Corneliani
    - Hickey Freeman Mainline
    - Brooks Brothers Golden Fleece
    - Brooks Brothers Black Fleece
    - Zegna
    - Isaia
    - RL Black Label


    Satisfactory [**] (i.e. The "Average" Brands. Quality is acceptable, and the price matches it).
    - Cantarelli
    - Boglioli (might not be not in terms of construction, but def for cut and fabric)
    - Brooks Brothers 1818
    - Paul Smith
    - RLBL
    - H. Freeman

    Mediocre[*] (i.e. Suits that should usually be avoided. Quality leaves much to be desired or prices are usually higher than they should be for such a suit).
    - Hugo Boss
    - Banana Republic Monogram
    - Lauren Ralph Lauren-
    -


    Bad [ ](i.e. Don't buy. Quality is overall bad, or quality is nowhere near the price asked for).
    - H&M
    - Banana Republic
    - Calvin Klein
    - Tasso Elba
    - Nautica
     


  3. voxsartoria

    voxsartoria Goon member

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    I agree ... especially when one knows who makes them. I do ... and I'll be you do too AF.

    I make RLPL. Do you have a problem with that?

    Are we including bespoke?

    Yes, but only Thai bespoke.

    Can somebody explain why Tasso Elba is inferior to Banana Republic Monogram? What about Alfani? Do they still make suits?

    I'm going to have to go with Baroni above all, especially because of the non-opening keyhole lapel buttonhole, which I know that you support.


    - B
     


  4. East Oakland

    East Oakland Senior member

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    Excellent [*****] (i.e. Suits made this well are far and few between, if money is no object your closet would be full of these. If money is a factor then these suits could sell for much, much more. This category should be kept to only a few items)
    - Kiton
    - Oxxford
    - Despos
    - Brioni
    - Cesare Attolini Napoli
    - Borrelli

    Very Good [****] (i.e. Few suits match the quality of the ones in this category or prices could be raised significantly and would still be good value).
    - Sartoria Partenopea
    - RLPL
    - Sartoria Attolini Napoli


    Good [***] (i.e. Quality is superior to most suits or the value of these suits is above average).
    - Samuelsohn
    - Caruso
    - Canali
    - Corneliani
    - Hickey Freeman Mainline
    - Brooks Brothers Golden Fleece
    - Brooks Brothers Black Fleece
    - Zegna
    - Isaia
    - RL Black Label


    Satisfactory [**] (i.e. The "Average" Brands. Quality is acceptable, and the price matches it).
    - Cantarelli
    - Boglioli (might not be not in terms of construction, but def for cut and fabric)
    - Brooks Brothers 1818
    - Paul Smith
    - RLBL
    - H. Freeman

    Mediocre[*] (i.e. Suits that should usually be avoided. Quality leaves much to be desired or prices are usually higher than they should be for such a suit).
    - Hugo Boss
    - Banana Republic Monogram
    - Lauren Ralph Lauren-
    -


    Bad [ ](i.e. Don't buy. Quality is overall bad, or quality is nowhere near the price asked for).
    - H&M
    - Banana Republic
    - Calvin Klein
    - Tasso Elba
    - Nautica


    The titles imply that value to price ratio should factor in somehow, but every inexpensive suit has ended up in the bottom rung no matter what kind of value it represents, and the brands that are very best in terms of construction but still don't necessarily represent a good value are all at the top. And in terms of pricing, are we talking retail or what SF members typically pay? Seems more useful to simply make a ranking based on quality of construction without taking price into consideration. I think that's what most of the posters have bee doing anyway.

    Aside from that, even though I'm a relative noob, some of the rankings still don't really make sense to me. We have fully canvassed suits like RLBL and Paul Smith mainline on the same level with half-canvassed suits like Brooks Brothers 1818. I would say that Brooks Brothers 1818 is more akin to the lower Paul Smith London line, and that RLBL and Paul Smith mainline both have significantly better construction and materials. So do we bump RLBL and Paul Smith mainline up to the same level with Isaia or do we bump Brooks Brothers 1818 down to the level of Hugo Boss? Or is it that Isaia doesn't really belong on the same rung with Canali and Brooks Brothers Black Fleece but should be somewhere higher?

    Or perhaps there are just too many incremental steps up in quality and too many subjective considerations to make this exercise practical.
     


  5. voxsartoria

    voxsartoria Goon member

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    The best made suit in the world has still not made an appearence.


    - B
     


  6. dv3

    dv3 Senior member

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    Saville Row's Paul Jheeta?

    I finally got around to looking him up a few weeks ago. Hands down the classiest website with the jazziest music of all Saville Row.

    Please add Joseph Abboud to the mediocre list. I sold an Abboud suit I never wore a bit ago, it's the quintessential mediocre suit, hell it might even nudge up on satisfactory (but not quite).
     


  7. voxsartoria

    voxsartoria Goon member

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    Saville Row's Paul Jheeta?

    Close.


    - B
     


  8. Artisan Fan

    Artisan Fan Suitsupply-sider

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    +1 Brioni's fabrics is at least on par with RLPL if not better.

    Yes, better.

    I agree ... especially when one knows who makes them. I do ... and I'll be you do too AF.

    I seem to recall that Chester Barrie did them then maybe St. Andrew's today?

    Am I right on this?
     


  9. Artisan Fan

    Artisan Fan Suitsupply-sider

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    Excellent [*****] (i.e. Suits made this well are far and few between, if money is no object your closet would be full of these. If money is a factor then these suits could sell for much, much more. This category should be kept to only a few items) - Kiton - Oxxford - Despos - Brioni - Cesare Attolini Napoli - Borrelli Very Good [****] (i.e. Few suits match the quality of the ones in this category or prices could be raised significantly and would still be good value). - Sartoria Partenopea - RLPL - Sartoria Attolini Napoli Good [***] (i.e. Quality is superior to most suits or the value of these suits is above average). - Samuelsohn - Caruso - Canali - Corneliani - Hickey Freeman Mainline - Brooks Brothers Golden Fleece - Brooks Brothers Black Fleece - Zegna - Isaia - RL Black Label Satisfactory [**] (i.e. The "Average" Brands. Quality is acceptable, and the price matches it). - Cantarelli - Boglioli (might not be not in terms of construction, but def for cut and fabric) - Brooks Brothers 1818 - Paul Smith - RLBL - H. Freeman Mediocre[*] (i.e. Suits that should usually be avoided. Quality leaves much to be desired or prices are usually higher than they should be for such a suit). - Hugo Boss - Banana Republic Monogram - Lauren Ralph Lauren- - Bad [ ](i.e. Don't buy. Quality is overall bad, or quality is nowhere near the price asked for). - H&M - Banana Republic - Calvin Klein - Tasso Elba - Nautica
    This seems more or less accurate on a quality make basis. I like to think of Zegna as a bit better or at least top of Good if only due to the fabrics. 15 MilMil 15 is a superb fabric that has held up nicely in terms of durable sportcoats for me.
     


  10. Christofuh

    Christofuh Senior member

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    Bijan makes the best suits. Period. Everybody else is a late-to-the-party fussy imitator. This thread can be locked [​IMG] [​IMG]
     


  11. voxsartoria

    voxsartoria Goon member

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    Bijan makes the best suits. Period. Everybody else is a late-to-the-party fussy imitator.
    This thread can be closed [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    Invoking The Bijan always ends the thread.

    - B
     


  12. Cognacad

    Cognacad Senior member

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    The titles imply that value to price ratio should factor in somehow, but every inexpensive suit has ended up in the bottom rung no matter what kind of value it represents, and the brands that are very best in terms of construction but still don't necessarily represent a good value are all at the top. And in terms of pricing, are we talking retail or what SF members typically pay? Seems more useful to simply make a ranking based on quality of construction without taking price into consideration. I think that's what most of the posters have bee doing anyway.

    Aside from that, even though I'm a relative noob, some of the rankings still don't really make sense to me. We have fully canvassed suits like RLBL and Paul Smith mainline on the same level with half-canvassed suits like Brooks Brothers 1818. I would say that Brooks Brothers 1818 is more akin to the lower Paul Smith London line, and that RLBL and Paul Smith mainline both have significantly better construction and materials. So do we bump RLBL and Paul Smith mainline up to the same level with Isaia or do we bump Brooks Brothers 1818 down to the level of Hugo Boss? Or is it that Isaia doesn't really belong on the same rung with Canali and Brooks Brothers Black Fleece but should be somewhere higher?

    Or perhaps there are just too many incremental steps up in quality and too many subjective considerations to make this exercise practical.


    I think to not take price into consideration would cause problems as it would resemble a list sorting the most expensive suits (mostly) at the top and the cheapest (mostly) at the bottom. I think this list should try to be practical and allow everyone to put in their input. It is hard to balance this all, but I think it is the best way to figure out what the "best" suits are. Some brands just stand out!
     


  13. voxsartoria

    voxsartoria Goon member

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    I think to not take price into consideration would cause problems as it would resemble a list sorting the most expensive suits (mostly) at the top and the cheapest (mostly) at the bottom. I think this list should try to be practical and allow everyone to put in their input. It is hard to balance this all, but I think it is the best way to figure out what the "best" suits are. Some brands just stand out!

    Yes, there is nothing more reliable to determine the best than a popular vote.


    - B
     


  14. dv3

    dv3 Senior member

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    Yes, there is nothing more reliable to determine the best than a popular vote. - B
    Such tomfoolery did give us both Bush (well, in '04) and Barack. I would agree that it is inconclusive. Has Jos. A Banks or Men's Warehouse been placed on the leader board? I agree with MC (below). A "quality" list is what is important and informative.
     


  15. Master-Classter

    Master-Classter Senior member

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    1. I think price should be taken out of the equation. It's not about value for money, it's about overall quality... that way someone can compare two items on the list versus their stated price and roughly determine which is better value, whatever the price at that time might be...
    2. I'd rule off putting bespoke on this list, it's too variable. OTR/RTW is where most people need this reference guide.

    Yes, there is nothing more reliable to determine the best than a popular vote.
    - B


    I mean sure, just look at what the elections have give us all these years [​IMG]
     


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