Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by Cognacad, Sep 20, 2009.
What about Lardini?
From BB Website:
"In keeping with our commitment to these traditional methods of craftsmanship, shoulders and armholes are hand-stitched for a comfortable, durable fit."
I felt the same way until someone actually bought me a Boss suit as a birthday present. I knew nothing about suits 'til joining this forum, and I actually said, "Boss suits are bottom-of-the-ladder quality." I've since spent way too much money on clothes, and I own at least one suit or jacket from every maker in the top tier. (And about ten grand of consumer debt for my efforts.) Boss isn't close in terms of quality, but it's wrong to label them "trash." I have one with stitched lapels, and it's very nice. Again, not nearly as good as Attolini, but it's 1/15th the price.
SF'ers are usually above this, but any single man reading this thread might be interested to know that no one's ever commented on my Brioni-quality jackets, but Boss seems to draw compliments without anyone ever seeing the label. That sounds callow, but this is fashion. I feel like 99% of the reason why people post their outfits here is because no one at work or on the street knows enough to appreciate what the hell they're wearing.
I agree with your sentiments but the scenario can be applied to any situation in life. Vintage car vs. new Escalade, Crate and Barrel furniture vs. antique piece, Banana republic shoes vs. Vass shoes; middle-class representatives would always favor brand new chinese-made crap
I agree with your assessment. Boss is getting a much worse reputation than it deserves here in the SF. I wear mostly handmade suits and while their qualities are obviously higher, so are their prices.
Boss's cut is very flattering on someone with an atheletic build, and their suiting can be quite nice. It is not top tier, but it is definitely not trash.
What I have is fused.
Exactly. You can't just judge a suit based on construction of canvassing vs. fused alone...If the suit otherwise is very well made and looks "rich" in the way the seams are done and shoulders lay, etc.. it doesn't so much matter if inside there is fusing instead of hand-stitched canvas.
I have to agree with the compliments on my Boss jackets. Are they made to Kiton interior construction standards? No. Are they just great looking and fitting garments? Yes.
I feel that this is a commonplace occurrence on any "enthusiast" forum though. The tendency is to trash the more mainstream mass-market products, even when their existence in the market bears some merit. Coming on SF and talking up LV and Coach seems tantamount to going on Head-Fi and extolling the virtues of Bose and Beats by Dre. TimeZone, Candlepower, car/motorcycle forums, etc. are all subject to similar biases.
Sure, one might make the argument that mainstream products, the makers of which are motivated by intent to profiteer, do not represent the highest subjective value-to-cost ratio (vis-à-vis the marginalization of manufacturing costs at the expense of product quality), but if one looks carefully, he/she can find some good in the product, even if it's not up to the standards of a more discerning "enthusiast" constituency. That is to say, it's bad if it's bad, but it's not necessarily bad just because it's made by Boss. In a self-contained microcosm (like an "enthusiast" forum), you'll also run into the issue of positive feedback, where the idea of a product/brand being negative self-perpetuates and comes to represent a strong bias in said population. It's important for us to acknowledge that we're not above the influence of expectation bias and confirmation bias.
Actually, Boss's poor reputation on SF is one of the more accurate rankings I think. Their suiting really *is* poorly constructed. My first "good" suit was a Boss Jam/Sharp model.
It was pretty flattering and I liked the cut, but the pants quickly tore at the seams (they weren't even slim fit or anything) and the jacket construction was flimsy.
I agree with your point that a fair assessment might be lost given requisite mass brand backlash on enthusiast forums but Beats and BOSE are awful. They would barely have a virtue at any price point. And, no, I am not on Head Fi.
Are there some suits that are this awful for the money?
And as discussed above, yes, people might post their fancy threads on here because nobody around them knows good from crap.
And maybe a Boss suit received more compliments than a Brioni but that can be due to several reasons. Maybe the fit or maybe those judging don't know a bloody thing. Perhaps the Boss is better than advertised, the Brioni worse, etc.
And while the world would be better off if suits in the Sopranos style were only found in TV fiction, Silvio's coiff is sweet.
Your assessment is accurate to your situation (and is completely warranted given the circumstances), but does that necessarily make it generalizable to all Boss suits? Perhaps not every owner of a Boss product has experienced such a phenomenon. I have no love for Boss, but my pair of Boss shoes has held up pretty well. Besides, you said it yourself: "It was pretty flattering and I liked the cut..." It goes to show that you were able to find something positive about the product, despite the durability being somewhat suspect.
Beats and Bose are built to a purpose. I own several pretty high-end headphone rigs, but if I'm on a plane and I want acoustic noise-cancellation to drown out the low-frequency hum of plane engines, you'd better believe I'm going to reach for a pair of in-ear monitors or a pair of Bose QuietComfort 15. Is the sound quality up to par with other headphones costing $300? Nope, but it's passable, and a lot better than people give it credit for. Is it overpriced? Hell yes, but I'd say the prices you can get them for used is about on par with what I'd expect to spend for an item of that quality. Hooray for eBay.
Beats are a different story. Beats are more a fashion accessory and status symbol than they are a device for accurate reproduction of sound. The aesthetic is more important than the sound itself. Also, Beats did for the headphone market what Diesel and Helmut Lang did for jeans: They made it an acceptable practice to spend $200+ on headphones and jeans, respectively. In that way, the product opened the market up to the idea of spending more on something that was once basically an afterthought. It has always fascinated me how much money people spend on big fancy TVs, and how little they spend on audio systems.
If people don't know good from crap, then that's on them. It's great that enthusiast forums exist, and it's also great that there's a small contingent of people who "know better". But it's also important to acknowledge that this small contingent is exactly that... small. It's not representative of the population at large. If you're dressing to have a certain aesthetic, to look good to others, then it's going to matter what the common man thinks (even if he doesn't know a bloody thing). Advertising and marketing are important. Boss advertising effectively is as much marketing as an individual presenting themselves well at an interview. Just two different forms of marketing. Both are trying to sell something, after all. So in the end it really is just a matter of priority. If you dress only for yourself, then go with the Brioni and sleep well knowing that the craftsmanship is far superior to anything on the mass market. If you're dressing to impress the common man, might be better to put on that Boss suit and wear a pair of Bose/Beats around your neck.
Look, very simply, the actual exterior construction of the suit, soft shoulders, minimal shoulder padding, well-done pick stitching and beautiful fabrics on Boss Black suits are actually GOOD. They look good and feel good, and are flattering. They just may not hold up well 5 years down the road, while the Kiton (and Samuelsohn for that matter) theoretically will.
The difference between Boss suits and Bose/BeatsByDre is that the former has no branding to "broadcast" what brand you're wearing, whereas the latter does...if anything it's more ostentatious to walk around proclaiming to everyone that you're wearing a Brioni.
Here is the problem. I have never seen a Boss suit in a fabric I would wear, other than solids. All of their patterned cloth looks very very cheap.
I have a feeling the dislike for Boss suits comes from a couple of reasons
1. To the average person Hugo Boss seems like a high end maker of suits, personally my first "nice" suit was a Hugo Boss
2. Its a bad quality to price ratio, i personally don't adhere to this as i believe that if you like something and think you will get utility out of it then go for it regardless of the price
3. A lot of people who wear Hugo Boss tend to like broadcasting to the world what they are wearing. At some formal events i can't count the number of times i have commented on someones suit and gotten the reply "yeah its Hugo Boss" or "careful with you drink this is Hugo Boss" or "where is your suit from? Well mine is Hugo Boss!"
Btw even if you go around proclaiming to everyone that you are wearing a Brioni, 90% of the people will not know what in the world you are talking about, because lets face it outside of the connoisseurs and high net worth individuals (in some cases even within) most people have never heard of the brands Brioni/Kiton/Attolini/Oxxford etc
I have a couple pairs of trousers from Boss. None have ever come apart (so they're durable) and they fit very well.
Separate names with a comma.