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The StyleForum Working Hierarchical Suit Quality List (SFWHSQL!)

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by Cognacad, Sep 20, 2009.

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  1. Achilles_

    Achilles_ Senior member

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    Hmmm I thought Collarasso was much better than GianLuca Napoli stuff, but lower then the Gianluca Isaia stuff.

    I'm with you on the Caruso SP, I was fortunate enough to find a used one on eBay, and grabbed it right away. Great quality!
     


  2. antirabbit

    antirabbit Senior member

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    collarasso is better in terms of styling and cut/fit, but not in construction, both are passable but far from extraordinary.
     


  3. Achilles_

    Achilles_ Senior member

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    Good to know :)

    I went back and read the pages from 10 on (I have 30 posts per page)

    I don't think we need a new thread, there is some great discussion we would miss out on concerning criteria for the list amongst other things. I do think the top tier list has grown to be way too big.

    I propose that instead of starting a new thread, we clean up the top two levels. Let's be honest, that's where most of our members are going to look, why not make it an easy to understand. The top two would be exclusive. I'm thinking both Isaia and Caruso SP would both be in the second level, while Kiton and that kind would be the very top. What do you guys think?
     


  4. musicguy

    musicguy Senior member

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    Here's my update. Moved Thom Browne down from Excellent to Very Good. I agree we don't need a new thread. Add your edits.

    Excellent [*****] (i.e. Suits made this well are far and few between, if money is no object your closet would be full of these. This category should be kept to only a few items)
    - Brioni
    - Cesare Attolini Napoli
    - D'Avenza
    - Isaia
    - Kiton
    - Luciano Barbera Collezioni Sartoriale
    - Luigi Borrelli
    - Oxxford
    - RLPL (not suit maker, a designer brand)
    - St Andrew
    - Sartoria Castangia
    - Sartoria Partenopea

    Very Good[****] (i.e. Few suits match the quality of the ones in this category).
    - Belvest
    - Borrelli Luxury Vintage
    - Brooks Brothers Golden Fleece
    - Canali Milano
    - Corneliani Linea Sartoria
    - Jil Sander tailor made
    - Lanvin
    - Pal Zileri Sartoriale (I think there is another line higher than Sartoriale, the custom made one, IIRC "Abito Privato", excellent quality)
    - (most of Raffaelle Caruso) eg. Sartoria Parma / RL Black Label / RL Signature
    - Ravazzolo
    - Sartoria Attolini Napoli
    - Thom Browne
    - Zegna Couture (includes Tom Ford)

    Good[***] (i.e. Quality is superior to most suits).
    - Brooks Brothers Black Fleece
    - Canali
    - K by Canali
    - Cantarelli Tailor
    - Corneliani
    - Ermenegildo Zegna
    - Etro / Boglioli
    - Faconnable Tailleur
    - Giorgio Armani (black label)
    - Hickey Freeman Mainline
    - Paul Smith Mainline
    - Samuelsohn

    Satisfactory [**] (i.e. The "Average" Brands. Quality is acceptable).
    - Benjamin Sartorial
    - Brooks Brothers 1818 (half canvassed)
    - Cantarelli
    - Hackett
    - H. Freemann
    - Hickey Freeman LTD (half canvas)
    - hickey
    - J Crew
    - Paul Smith London (not a suit maker, designer brand - half canvassed)
    - Z-Zegna

    Mediocre[*] (Suits that are mediocre)
    - H&M
    - Hugo Boss
    - J. Press
    - Joseph Abboud
    - Marco Valentino (half canvas)
     


  5. in stitches

    in stitches Kung Joo Moderator

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    im biased, but i dont understand how zegna is so far down on the list. makes no sense to me.
     


  6. Achilles_

    Achilles_ Senior member

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    I actually agree with this. I would put zegna mainline on par with BBGF at least. Then again, the top two tiers are too crowded as it is.

    I'm working on my own top two tiers for everyone's consideration :stirpot:
     


  7. Achilles_

    Achilles_ Senior member

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    Best
    Kiton
    Cesare Attolini Napoli
    Oxxford
    St Andrew
    Brioni



    Very Good
    Isaia
    Luigi Borrelli
    Luciano Barbera Collezioni Sartoriale
    RLPL
    Zegna XXX Couture
    Belvest
    Caruso Sartoria Parma



    There, this is what I came up with. I'm not saying this is official or anything, but I feel like the very best should be separated from the very very good. Thoughts? Do i need to make some switches?
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2011


  8. Klobber

    Klobber Senior member

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    Jil Sander tailor made

    They are not that good, should be moved down to Good.

    Lanvin

    Belongs to the Good category

    Zegna Couture (includes Tom Ford)

    Separate TF from Zegna, they are not the same despite Zegna manufacturing it. I would argue both belong to the Excellent group or at least top of Very Good. I vote Excellent.

    Luciano Barbera is a very good suit, not excellent. Unless there exists an exclusive line apart from what is sold in department stores.

    Giorgio Armani black label should be bumped up from Good to Very Good - the quality is very good on these suits, maybe not top level, but definitely better than the other suits listed in the Good section.

    Etro should be bomblasted down towards the Hugo Boss, Versace Collection quality (mediocre). I love Etro as a brand, but gotta admit their suit quality leaves a lot to be desired. UNLESS: There exists some high end sub label of Etro making half to fully canvassed goods. All Etro suits I have seen have been fused.

    Ralph Lauren black label should be in the Good section, as well as: Prada, Gucci, Dolce and Gabbanna mainline, YSL Rive Gauche, Dior Homme.
    Valentino should be in there (they make canvassed suits), as well as Versace Couture.

    Prada and Gucci are hard to catergorize - some of their suits are arguably worthy of entry into the Very Good group, while other suits within their lines are worthy of the mediocre or sub standard fused suit group. I say take an average and say Good subject to contraints - i.e. price tag over $2K, very good suit, price tag under, bad suits.
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2011


  9. Klobber

    Klobber Senior member

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    I can agree with this but:

    Brioni are arguably a better suit than Kiton. Kiton have nicer fabrics, nicer drape for my money, but the level of craftmanship on the Brioni is probably a step ahead. It is very subjective and hair splitting, but I would have to consider they are roughly equal when weighing up all the variables.

    Also Zegna are a funny label to catergorize. Most of their suiting falls in some void between Good and Very Good, but I have seen Zegna suits that easily belong into the top catergory having all the bells and whistles one could want (including being entirely hand made). Same goes for Tom Ford, unless their quality have taken a recent dive, I have two 2008/2009 period TF suits that are every bit as well made as Brioni or Kiton. Unless recent collections have nosedived in quality, I dont know why people dont consider them worthy of top bracket.
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2011


  10. musicguy

    musicguy Senior member

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    I'd keep Brioni in the top tier.

    Perhaps we should remove Lanvin from the list? This list should really only include RTW suits. Good bespoke should automatically fall in the excellent category. Lanvin bespoke is really quite excellent, especially with regards to their bespoke shirts (or at least it used to be). Does Lanvin even make RTW suits or just fashion suits?

    I'd also remove Abboud from the list and H&M should be in a different category, perhaps labeled cheap but useable for some.

    I agree TF should probably be in the top tier and Zegna is a hard label to categorize. Not sure what to do with Zegna.
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2011


  11. Klobber

    Klobber Senior member

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    One more observation:

    I would not say the Golden Fleece is better than Hickey Freeman. Both belong to the Good category, possibly Very Good category.

    Also, not wanting to be sacrilegious, I did see a Hugo Boss suit (Hugo Selection I think) that when I pulled apart the layers of fabric, I found canvassing in there. Fabric was decent as well. Perhaps the evil Hugo Boss label are worthy at least of being placed in the Satisfactory, or God forbid, the Good list!


    Zegna are wierd to catergorize - quality of the best Zenya suits easily makes it to the top of the list. The stuff I usually see in department stores, Good to Very Good. I agree though, Zegna's best should be placed in the top of the pile.
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2011


  12. Achilles_

    Achilles_ Senior member

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    I added Brioni to the top tier (I actually had them there originally, but switched it off right before I posted)
     


  13. musicguy

    musicguy Senior member

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    Doesn't St. Andrew make RLPL?

    You also left out D'Avenza, Sartoria Castangia and Sartoria Partenopea. I have no experience with these brands, but a quick search here seems to show that they're quite excellent.
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2011


  14. in stitches

    in stitches Kung Joo Moderator

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    what makes it hard?
     


  15. musicguy

    musicguy Senior member

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    I think Zegna deserves a higher ranking that Good, but if we put it in Very Good, where would we put Zenga Couture?
     


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