The StyleForum Working Hierarchical Suit Quality List (SFWHSQL!)

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by Cognacad, Sep 20, 2009.

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  1. furo

    furo Senior member

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    no im talking about fabric/fabric content to fabric/fabric content

    100% wool worsted.
    i dont know about the grades though, im not sure isaia has some of the grades brioni has. ive only seen super 120s /130s for isaia wool worsted. and they are fine.

    but the worsted ive seen is like buttery cashmere-like on the brionis ive seen but it may be a higher grade wool.


    I've noticed that too now about Brioni worsted wool after you suggested I go with their wools over their cashmere.

    In comparison, the Isaia wools I've seen/felt aren't as nice, but that's why I ask the question earlier... maybe I'm missing something or I haven't seen Isaia's top line?
     


  2. sho'nuff

    sho'nuff grrrrrrrr!!

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    I've noticed that too now about Brioni worsted wool after you suggested I go with their wools over their cashmere.

    In comparison, the Isaia wools I've seen/felt aren't as nice, but that's why I ask the question earlier... maybe I'm missing something or I haven't seen Isaia's top line?


    im not sure too. but from what ive seen at Gary's, NM, saks, shopthefinest, my own purchases here on sf, etc. isaia napoli consistently has (to me) lower grade feeling wool than brioni. and dont get me wrong, ive seen some meh wool on some brionis too but a wider spectrum of wool grades apparent on brionis.
    and the isaias typically miss alot of the small bells and whistles we oh so want to see on these suits taht are found readily on brionis, borrellis,.
     


  3. Taxler

    Taxler Senior member

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    im not sure too. but from what ive seen at Gary's, NM, saks, shopthefinest, my own purchases here on sf, etc. isaia napoli consistently has (to me) lower grade feeling wool than brioni. and dont get me wrong, ive seen some meh wool on some brionis too but a wider spectrum of wool grades apparent on brionis.
    and the isaias typically miss alot of the small bells and whistles we oh so want to see on these suits taht are found readily on brionis, borrellis,.


    I think stores tend to choose less exotic/expensive fabrics for Isaia than Brioni for their own reasons. If you look at the fabrics books, there are plenty of equivalent choices.
     


  4. Green Lantern

    Green Lantern Senior member

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    I think we should stick to a common denominator by talking RTW. MTM and Custom are wish list comparisons from any top grade maker. In the RTW trade I find EZ the best. Saks consistently has a lesser "wool" pieces than Barney's and NM can grab from across the board to stock their different stores. Smaller Boutiques like the now bankrupt Wilkes Bashford and Platinum list stores will stock what will sell and keep their ROI numbers in check.
     


  5. ChicagoRon

    ChicagoRon Senior member

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    I think we should stick to a common denominator by talking RTW. MTM and Custom are wish list comparisons from any top grade maker. In the RTW trade I find EZ the best. Saks consistently has a lesser "wool" pieces than Barney's and NM can grab from across the board to stock their different stores. Smaller Boutiques like the now bankrupt Wilkes Bashford and Platinum list stores will stock what will sell and keep their ROI numbers in check.
    I think that supports my marketing theory... as a retailer of both Isaia and Brioni, I assume customers are more familiar with Brioni. They advertise in more mainstream publications, have Donald Trump as a de-facto spokesman, etc. So, I want the customers to see a higher price tag on the suit with the higher perceived value. To accentuate that, I would buy lower end Isaia and higher end Brioni..... Then for the brand-conscious, I sell the Brioni. If a more cost-conscious shopper comes in, I can sell the "well... the construction is relatively the same quality, so you're getting a much better deal on the Isaia".
     


  6. ApplesHK

    ApplesHK Senior member

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    This has been a very interesting read. Unfortunately the excellent, very good and good are out of my price range. That's why I now go bespoke; at least the stuff will fit.

    Personal experience leads me to ask a few questions though. Where are d'Urban, Gieves and Hawkes, Dormeuil RTW, Kilgour, Kent & Curwen and for a high street RTW, why isn't the Marks & Spencers Collezionne getting a mention? I know it's at a lower end, but it is one of the better options for a young man just starting out and who is on a limited budget.

    D'Urban has a few stores here in HK and I own one cashmere jacket that I adore and everything I see with a D'Urban label seems extremely well made.

    And one more, DAKS, no mentions here.
     


  7. binge

    binge Senior member

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    I think it happened about the time I bought..Italian made boxer short...fell back unto the bed choking back the tears...hoping no one from the...police would walk in....Thank you very much.

    [​IMG]
     


  8. apwrxmd

    apwrxmd Active Member

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    Just curious as to where Jcrew or Express suits sit into this category??
     


  9. maomao1980

    maomao1980 Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    This has been a very interesting read. Unfortunately the excellent, very good and good are out of my price range. That's why I now go bespoke; at least the stuff will fit.

    Personal experience leads me to ask a few questions though. Where are d'Urban, Gieves and Hawkes, Dormeuil RTW, Kilgour, Kent & Curwen and for a high street RTW, why isn't the Marks & Spencers Collezionne getting a mention? I know it's at a lower end, but it is one of the better options for a young man just starting out and who is on a limited budget.

    D'Urban has a few stores here in HK and I own one cashmere jacket that I adore and everything I see with a D'Urban label seems extremely well made.

    And one more, DAKS, no mentions here.


    I don't think suits sold at DFS or airports are eligible for this threak
     


  10. DocHolliday

    DocHolliday Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    I think that supports my marketing theory... as a retailer of both Isaia and Brioni, I assume customers are more familiar with Brioni. They advertise in more mainstream publications, have Donald Trump as a de-facto spokesman, etc. So, I want the customers to see a higher price tag on the suit with the higher perceived value. To accentuate that, I would buy lower end Isaia and higher end Brioni..... Then for the brand-conscious, I sell the Brioni. If a more cost-conscious shopper comes in, I can sell the "well... the construction is relatively the same quality, so you're getting a much better deal on the Isaia".
    And here we have the basis of many of the rankings. So, is a suit in a luxurious, delicate cloth better quality than a suit with the same construction in a sturdy, non-luxurious cloth? Or vice versa? Or neither? Personally, I'd argue that's a poor criteria for comparing quality, but it seems to be a significant factor in the thread. This type of discussion is much easier when you don't quantify things, don't you think? I like Corneliani. It's way better than Canali. Trust me.
     


  11. ApplesHK

    ApplesHK Senior member

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    I don't think suits sold at DFS or airports are eligible for this threak

    Are you saying Gieves & Hawkes, Kilgour, Kent & Curwen etc are sold at warehouses? Surely you jest.
    I have seen Aquascutum sold in airports though.

    But my questions remain..........why aren't these brands seen anywhere on the list? Regardless of where they are sold, some of them must be better than Boss and co.
     


  12. GiltEdge

    GiltEdge Senior member

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    Bottega Venetta. What some call Hermes only true competitor, how is their quality. I love their cut.
     


  13. sho'nuff

    sho'nuff grrrrrrrr!!

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    And here we have the basis of many of the rankings.

    So, is a suit in a luxurious, delicate cloth better quality than a suit with the same construction in a sturdy, non-luxurious cloth? Or vice versa? Or neither? Personally, I'd argue that's a poor criteria for comparing quality, but it seems to be a significant factor in the thread.

    This type of discussion is much easier when you don't quantify things, don't you think?

    I like Corneliani. It's way better than Canali. Trust me.



    if cloth quality shouldnt be a factor in gauging suit rank what then? construction? the main concern is whether it is fused or canvassed and that's it. other aspects of construction or so negligible when it comes to actual wear and aesthetic look and feel (this is a big criteria in anything anybody wears, basically it is what defines clothes) that i dont think construction is even one tenth of what fabric quality brings to the table in gauging suit ranking.
    fit and styling of course is a personal opinion of course. so that only leaves construction and fabric. so fabric it is , dont you think?


    Bottega Venetta. What some call Hermes only true competitor, how is their quality. I love their cut.
    love bottega venetta. one of the most unique motifs they have in their designs.
     


  14. furo

    furo Senior member

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    And here we have the basis of many of the rankings.

    So, is a suit in a luxurious, delicate cloth better quality than a suit with the same construction in a sturdy, non-luxurious cloth? Or vice versa? Or neither? Personally, I'd argue that's a poor criteria for comparing quality, but it seems to be a significant factor in the thread.


    I don't think it's a poor criteria at all. A brand who wishes to be based in quality should only stick to the best fabric. Period.

    When that is lacking, you typically see it in diffusion lines.

    There's also something to be said about the handwork involved in the making of a suit, not just construction alone. From what I've read, it can take about 18 man-hours to make a Brioni suit. I don't know what Isaia invests labor wise, but I'd be curious to know, as well as how much each brand is spending on its fabric (of course we then get into semantics of supply chain, etc)
     


  15. DocHolliday

    DocHolliday Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    if cloth quality shouldnt be a factor in gauging suit rank what then? construction? the main concern is whether it is fused or canvassed and that's it. other aspects of construction or so negligible when it comes to actual wear and aesthetic look and feel (this is a big criteria in anything anybody wears, basically it is what defines clothes) that i dont think construction is even one tenth of what fabric quality brings to the table in gauging suit ranking. fit and styling of course is a personal opinion of course. so that only leaves construction and fabric. so fabric it is , dont you think?
    I think cloth quality can be fine basis for comparison ... if you're comparing apples to apples. Brioni's topline luxury winter cloths v. Isaia's? Sure. But for most guys, the sample size is going to be pretty small, so it's going to be hard to make a direct comparison, and the assessment is going to be based on individual tastes. A Super 200s suit isn't inherently better than a rustic tweed -- they're just different beasts. Personally, I'll happily trade decadence for something simple and sturdy. Or is durability not part of quality? Sometimes I think we tend to confuse "quality" with "luxury." Part of the problem with a thread like this is the lack of a shared definition of "good quality." I want something that fits well, looks the way I want, and lasts a long time, but I don't give a plug nickel about the delicate caress of gossamer cloth against my bare skin. Others may care more about the feel of the cloth than how well it withstands the toll of time. As always, YMMV.
     


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