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The StyleForum Working Hierarchical Suit Quality List (SFWHSQL!)

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by Cognacad, Sep 20, 2009.

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  1. mafoofan

    mafoofan Well-Known Member

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    Yeah they switched but I'm not sure the Japan-made new production will be inferior, we'll see. It's not like his current offerings pale compared to Isaia or Brioni and they are clearly above black fleece.


    -If Hermès is stillmade by Belvest we could put them in the same category.
    -Dior homme was pretty good, going from beyond anything on that list (couture embroidery) to at least "good".
    -Lanvin fabrics are often custom and IMHO, more interesting than those from other brands.
    -Jil Sander: I'm talking about the RTW "tailor made" line not MtM, not sure who makes it anymore. Mine looks good and is well made but it's a fine example of Teutonic design minimalism (no sleeve buttons, discrete stitching, etc).


    Hmm, I get the sense you are measuring quality by different criteria than have been used to construct much of this list. I'm not sure how much embroidery or proprietary fabrics can really be compared to the amount and quality of structural hand-stitiching.
     
  2. Fuuma

    Fuuma Well-Known Member

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    Hmm, I get the sense you are measuring quality by different criteria than have been used to construct much of this list. I'm not sure how much embroidery or proprietary fabrics can really be compared to the amount and quality of structural hand-stitiching.

    I did not even propose Dior Homme, it was merely an example. Couture embroidery makes Kiton handwork and prices look like bargain basement deals.
     
  3. mafoofan

    mafoofan Well-Known Member

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    I did not even propose Dior Homme, it was merely an example. Couture embroidery makes Kiton handwork and prices look like bargain basement deals.

    Oh, I wasn't questioning you, just pointing out that embroidery probably didn't register in most of the calculus that went into the list as it stands.
     
  4. Pezzaturra

    Pezzaturra Well-Known Member

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    Who makes suits and sport coats for Tom Ford? Tom Ford should be somewhere on that list just for making gorgeous YSL inspired menswear.
     
  5. furo

    furo Well-Known Member

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    It's not like his current offerings pale compared to Isaia or Brioni and they are clearly above black fleece.

    So seeing that Isaia and Brioni are in the same category in this list, what sets the price points so far apart? Is it the embroidery? Because Isaia seem to retail for 1/2 that of Brioni on average.
     
  6. GiltEdge

    GiltEdge Well-Known Member

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    Who makes suits and sport coats for Tom Ford? Tom Ford should be somewhere on that list just for making gorgeous YSL inspired menswear.

    Zegna, still wondering who makes everything else. Last I heard it was still Zegna...

    Hmmm Zegna makes for YSL, Gucci and TF [​IMG]
     
  7. ChicagoRon

    ChicagoRon Well-Known Member

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    So seeing that Isaia and Brioni are in the same category in this list, what sets the price points so far apart? Is it the embroidery? Because Isaia seem to retail for 1/2 that of Brioni on average.
    I'm interested to hear what the people who actually KNOW will say, but my bet is MARKETING.
     
  8. gdl203

    gdl203 Well-Known Member

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    I'm interested to hear what the people who actually KNOW will say, but my bet is MARKETING.

    I don't know that I'm in the KNOW but owning garments from both, and on the merits of the garments only, I have no rational explanation why Brioni should be worth more than Isaia. I'd argue the opposite, actually.
     
  9. Fuuma

    Fuuma Well-Known Member

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    Oh, I wasn't questioning you, just pointing out that embroidery probably didn't register in most of the calculus that went into the list as it stands.

    I don't think any of our forum members own garments baller enough to comment on couture embroidery.
     
  10. gdl203

    gdl203 Well-Known Member

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    I don't think any of our forum members own garments baller enough to comment on couture embroidery.

    IIRC, you have a Thierry Mugler embroidered thong, don't you?
     
  11. sho'nuff

    sho'nuff Well-Known Member

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    I don't know that I'm in the KNOW but owning garments from both, and on the merits of the garments only, I have no rational explanation why Brioni should be worth more than Isaia. I'd argue the opposite, actually.

    im sincerely asking why you cannot explain why a brioni should be worth more than isaia? im no suit /fabrics expert, but i can see from plain sight and feel, that brioni is empirically at least a couple of notches above isaia in fabric quality at least.
     
  12. Fuuma

    Fuuma Well-Known Member

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    IIRC, you have a Thierry Mugler embroidered thong, don't you?

    Nah, they're studs. Mugler said "studs" and thongs symbolize the new direction his designs have taken.
     
  13. gdl203

    gdl203 Well-Known Member

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    im sincerely asking why you cannot explain why a brioni should be worth more than isaia? im no suit /fabrics expert, but i can see from plain sight and feel, that brioni is empirically at least a couple of notches above isaia in fabric quality at least.

    Sorry but I don't see that at all. You may be comparing fabrics that are not comparable (e.g. worsted vs. cashmere mix...)?
     
  14. sho'nuff

    sho'nuff Well-Known Member

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    Sorry but I don't see that at all. You may be comparing fabrics that are not comparable (e.g. worsted vs. cashmere mix...)?

    no im talking about fabric/fabric content to fabric/fabric content

    100% wool worsted.
    i dont know about the grades though, im not sure isaia has some of the grades brioni has. ive only seen super 120s /130s for isaia wool worsted. and they are fine.

    but the worsted ive seen is like buttery cashmere-like on the brionis ive seen but it may be a higher grade wool.

    and about 100% cashmere, ive seen isaia coats that are made from that and they are nice, but the brioni ones ive seen are truly superlative.
     
  15. gdl203

    gdl203 Well-Known Member

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    I don't have such an experience of empirically superlative cloth quality with Brioni. I'm selling a Brioni right now so I have no interest in saying otherwise but - nope - sorry, nothing notably different IMO. No butter.
     
  16. furo

    furo Well-Known Member

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    no im talking about fabric/fabric content to fabric/fabric content

    100% wool worsted.
    i dont know about the grades though, im not sure isaia has some of the grades brioni has. ive only seen super 120s /130s for isaia wool worsted. and they are fine.

    but the worsted ive seen is like buttery cashmere-like on the brionis ive seen but it may be a higher grade wool.


    I've noticed that too now about Brioni worsted wool after you suggested I go with their wools over their cashmere.

    In comparison, the Isaia wools I've seen/felt aren't as nice, but that's why I ask the question earlier... maybe I'm missing something or I haven't seen Isaia's top line?
     
  17. sho'nuff

    sho'nuff Well-Known Member

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    I've noticed that too now about Brioni worsted wool after you suggested I go with their wools over their cashmere.

    In comparison, the Isaia wools I've seen/felt aren't as nice, but that's why I ask the question earlier... maybe I'm missing something or I haven't seen Isaia's top line?


    im not sure too. but from what ive seen at Gary's, NM, saks, shopthefinest, my own purchases here on sf, etc. isaia napoli consistently has (to me) lower grade feeling wool than brioni. and dont get me wrong, ive seen some meh wool on some brionis too but a wider spectrum of wool grades apparent on brionis.
    and the isaias typically miss alot of the small bells and whistles we oh so want to see on these suits taht are found readily on brionis, borrellis,.
     
  18. Taxler

    Taxler Well-Known Member

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    im not sure too. but from what ive seen at Gary's, NM, saks, shopthefinest, my own purchases here on sf, etc. isaia napoli consistently has (to me) lower grade feeling wool than brioni. and dont get me wrong, ive seen some meh wool on some brionis too but a wider spectrum of wool grades apparent on brionis.
    and the isaias typically miss alot of the small bells and whistles we oh so want to see on these suits taht are found readily on brionis, borrellis,.


    I think stores tend to choose less exotic/expensive fabrics for Isaia than Brioni for their own reasons. If you look at the fabrics books, there are plenty of equivalent choices.
     
  19. Green Lantern

    Green Lantern Well-Known Member

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    I think we should stick to a common denominator by talking RTW. MTM and Custom are wish list comparisons from any top grade maker. In the RTW trade I find EZ the best. Saks consistently has a lesser "wool" pieces than Barney's and NM can grab from across the board to stock their different stores. Smaller Boutiques like the now bankrupt Wilkes Bashford and Platinum list stores will stock what will sell and keep their ROI numbers in check.
     
  20. ChicagoRon

    ChicagoRon Well-Known Member

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    I think we should stick to a common denominator by talking RTW. MTM and Custom are wish list comparisons from any top grade maker. In the RTW trade I find EZ the best. Saks consistently has a lesser "wool" pieces than Barney's and NM can grab from across the board to stock their different stores. Smaller Boutiques like the now bankrupt Wilkes Bashford and Platinum list stores will stock what will sell and keep their ROI numbers in check.
    I think that supports my marketing theory... as a retailer of both Isaia and Brioni, I assume customers are more familiar with Brioni. They advertise in more mainstream publications, have Donald Trump as a de-facto spokesman, etc. So, I want the customers to see a higher price tag on the suit with the higher perceived value. To accentuate that, I would buy lower end Isaia and higher end Brioni..... Then for the brand-conscious, I sell the Brioni. If a more cost-conscious shopper comes in, I can sell the "well... the construction is relatively the same quality, so you're getting a much better deal on the Isaia".
     

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