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The StyleForum Working Hierarchical Suit Quality List (SFWHSQL!)

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by Cognacad, Sep 20, 2009.

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  1. comrade

    comrade Senior member

    Messages:
    5,875
    Joined:
    May 10, 2005
    Location:
    Menlo Park, CA
    Have you ever really looked at your hand? Just looked at it?

    Yes. I have inherited the slightly curved pinky from my father which my daughter
    and grandchildren have as well.

    Binge what are you doing posting on Saturday night?
    I suppose you are awaiting your guests while your
    staff busys itself with last minute preparations.
     
  2. comrade

    comrade Senior member

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    Location:
    Menlo Park, CA
    But don't they "rip the tags out" by hand?
    A fine Italian hand at that.



    Have you heard the old expression "a fine Italian hand?" It's an old saying that applied to a situation in which you believed, at first, that you were dealing with one rather inept adversary. However, as the matter progressed, you began to realize that there was a more skilled, subtle "” and invisible "” player involved, manipulating things at a much more sophisticated level. That player was the "fine Italian hand."


    http://www.bookwormroom.com/2008/05/...in-the-garage/
     
  3. Stavros

    Stavros Senior member

    Messages:
    478
    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2008
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    Added Etro & Armani black label.

    Excellent [*****] (i.e. Suits made this well are far and few between, if money is no object your closet would be full of these. This category should be kept to only a few items)
    - Kiton
    - Oxxford
    - Brioni
    - Cesare Attolini Napoli (after seen and tried it for the first time, indeed one of the best)
    - Luigi Borrelli and Luxury Vintage line
    - RLPL (not suit maker, a designer brand)
    - Luciano Barbera Collezioni Sartoriale
    - St Andrew
    - D'Avenza

    Very Good[****] (i.e. Few suits match the quality of the ones in this category).
    - Belvest
    - Corneliani Linea Sartoria
    - Canali Milano
    - Sartoria Partenopea
    - Sartoria Attolini Napoli
    - Isaia
    - (most of Raffaelle Caruso) eg. Sartoria Parma
    - Pal Zileri Sartoriale (I think there is another line higher than Sartoriale, the custom made one, IIRC "Abito Privato", excellent quality)
    - Ravazzolo
    - Zegna Couture
    - Brooks Brothers Golden Fleece
    -Sartorio Castangia

    Good[***] (i.e. Quality is superior to most suits).
    - Brooks Brothers Black Fleece
    - Hickey Freeman Mainline
    - Corneliani
    - Canali
    - K by Canali
    - Ermenegildo Zegna
    - Samuelsohn
    - Paul Smith Mainline (not a suit maker, designer brand - fully canvassed)
    - RLBL (not a suit maker, designer brand - fully canvassed)
    - Faconnable Tailleur (also designer brand)
    - Cantarelli Tailor
    - Etro
    - Giorgio Armani (black label)

    Satisfactory [**] (i.e. The "Average" Brands. Quality is acceptable).
    - Cantarelli
    - Boglioli (might not be not in terms of construction, but def for cut and fabric)
    - Brooks Brothers 1818 (half canvassed)
    - Paul Smith London (not a suit maker, designer brand - half canvassed)
    - H. Freemann
    - Hickey Freeman LTD (Half Canvas)
    - hickey
    - Hackett

    Mediocre[*] (Suits that are mediocre)
    - Z-Zegna (sometimes satisfactory sometimes mediocre)
    - Hugo Boss
    - Marco Valentino (half canvas) - surprising but I found the VFM is great
    - Joseph Abboud
    - J. Press
     
  4. stant62

    stant62 Senior member

    Messages:
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    Sep 16, 2008
    Location:
    New York, NY
    After speaking with the salesman at Borrelli (sadly two weeks before they closed), he claimed that Borrelli is on par with Kiton and Isaia when I told him about my preference towards Isaia.
     
  5. maomao1980

    maomao1980 Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Apr 3, 2006
    Location:
    Capital M
    How the hell did Borrelli's Luxury Vintage get into the top category? A lot of the LV stuff is garbage for the prices charged.
     
  6. SirSuturesALot

    SirSuturesALot Senior member

    Messages:
    1,510
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    Sep 15, 2007
    How the hell did Borrelli's Luxury Vintage get into the top category? A lot of the LV stuff is garbage for the prices charged.

    There are many suspect placements in the rankings, I wouldn't take it too seriously.
     
  7. binge

    binge Senior member

    Messages:
    5,210
    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2008
    Location:
    San Francisco
    The beauty of this is that you can change it. But only one change per post. Rules are rules you know. Like black suits.
     
  8. laphroaig

    laphroaig Senior member

    Messages:
    736
    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2007
    ^^^ I agree that rules are exactly like black suits. Only to be used at funerals, and by waiters.

    And don't worry maomao1980. It's not in the top category. The top category disappeared from the list a couple of pages back.
     
  9. GiltEdge

    GiltEdge Senior member

    Messages:
    1,138
    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2008
    FYI, in the book I mentioned, Corneliani is the company that uses factories in Egypt and rips the tags out in Milan. Thomas says that all Valentino menswear is produced outside of Italy, then sent to Italy, tags are replaced, and then sent out.
     
  10. Arms_Akimbo

    Arms_Akimbo Senior member

    Messages:
    700
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    Aug 5, 2009
    Location:
    Boulder
    I'd be interested to see a TaT placement.
     
  11. dfischer1

    dfischer1 Active Member

    Messages:
    38
    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2009
    I'd be interested to see a TaT placement.

    2.5 stars. The full canvas gives it points, but the rough handiwork and polarizing fit keep it from going any higher.

    Any votes for Steven Aver?

    DF
     
  12. huynhc

    huynhc Member

    Messages:
    22
    Joined:
    May 2, 2009
    where would john varvatos and john varvatos star fit?
     
  13. furo

    furo Senior member

    Messages:
    6,188
    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2009
    FYI, in the book I mentioned, Corneliani is the company that uses factories in Egypt and rips the tags out in Milan. Thomas says that all Valentino menswear is produced outside of Italy, then sent to Italy, tags are replaced, and then sent out.

    Interesting. I wonder what percentage of suits Corneliani produces are actually made in Egypt, and what models.
     
  14. Robert Goodell

    Robert Goodell New Member

    Messages:
    2
    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2009
    Location:
    Baltimoire
    This is a fascinating Thread. By way of introduction, and in sincere humility as a newcomer, perhaps someone could advise which of the "better" lines (reference above rankings ) has models for taller men. I am 6'4", 220 lbs, and am best described as a 45 XL. In the last years it seems many lines have dropped those of us at the extremes.

    Thanks,

    RJG
     
  15. GiltEdge

    GiltEdge Senior member

    Messages:
    1,138
    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2008
    Interesting. I wonder what percentage of suits Corneliani produces are actually made in Egypt, and what models.

    What I remember off the top of my head, and there is a video on youtube about this...is ALL the suits for Valentino are made in Egypt.
     
  16. gdl203

    gdl203 Senior member Dubiously Honored Affiliate Vendor

    Messages:
    36,650
    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2005
    Location:
    New York
    Excellent [*****] (i.e. Suits made this well are far and few between, if money is no object your closet would be full of these. This category should be kept to only a few items)
    - Kiton
    - Oxxford
    - Brioni
    - Cesare Attolini Napoli (after seen and tried it for the first time, indeed one of the best)
    - Luigi Borrelli
    - RLPL (not suit maker, a designer brand)
    - Luciano Barbera Collezioni Sartoriale
    - St Andrew
    - Sartoria Partenopea
    - Isaia

    - D'Avenza

    Very Good[****] (i.e. Few suits match the quality of the ones in this category).
    - Belvest
    - Corneliani Linea Sartoria
    - Sartoria Attolini Napoli
    - Canali Milano
    - (most of Raffaelle Caruso) eg. Sartoria Parma / RL Black Label / RL Signature
    - Pal Zileri Sartoriale (I think there is another line higher than Sartoriale, the custom made one, IIRC "Abito Privato", excellent quality)
    - Ravazzolo
    - Zegna Couture
    - Brooks Brothers Golden Fleece
    - Sartoria Castangia
    - Borrelli Luxury Vintage

    Good[***] (i.e. Quality is superior to most suits).
    - Brooks Brothers Black Fleece
    - Hickey Freeman Mainline
    - Corneliani
    - Canali
    - K by Canali
    - Ermenegildo Zegna
    - Samuelsohn
    - Paul Smith Mainline (not a suit maker, designer brand - fully canvassed)
    - Faconnable Tailleur (also designer brand)
    - Cantarelli Tailor
    - Etro / Boglioli
    - Giorgio Armani (black label)

    Satisfactory [**] (i.e. The "Average" Brands. Quality is acceptable).
    - Cantarelli
    - Brooks Brothers 1818 (half canvassed)
    - Paul Smith London (not a suit maker, designer brand - half canvassed)
    - H. Freemann
    - Hickey Freeman LTD (Half Canvas)
    - hickey
    - Hackett
    - Z-Zegna

    Mediocre[*] (Suits that are mediocre)
    - Hugo Boss
    - Marco Valentino (half canvas) - surprising but I found the VFM is great
    - Joseph Abboud
    - J. Press
     
  17. GiltEdge

    GiltEdge Senior member

    Messages:
    1,138
    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2008
    How about Armani Collezioni, the Zegna production of it (1996-2008), and the now "made by armani corp" suits? I would put AC at *** since many people here like it due to its more conservative, western cut. I think that Armani black label's "Fatto A Mano" line should go to ****, as those are canvassed and well hand made. As for the entry level black label, I'll agree with ***.
     
  18. SirSuturesALot

    SirSuturesALot Senior member

    Messages:
    1,510
    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2007
    ...

    Thank you for the fixes [​IMG]
     
  19. DocHolliday

    DocHolliday Senior member Dubiously Honored

    Messages:
    16,118
    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2005
    Location:
    Tombstone
    How about Armani Collezioni, the Zegna production of it (1996-2008), and the now "made by armani corp" suits? I would put AC at *** since many people here like it due to its more conservative, western cut. I think that Armani black label's "Fatto A Mano" line should go to ****, as those are canvassed and well hand made. As for the entry level black label, I'll agree with ***.

    Shh, don't clutter it up. My favorite part of the thread is how it exists in a vacuum, with no qualification for time of manufacture and only the vaguest definition for each tier. I have a fully canvassed Botany 500 coat, so Botany 500 should go no lower than the third tier, right?
     
  20. gdl203

    gdl203 Senior member Dubiously Honored Affiliate Vendor

    Messages:
    36,650
    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2005
    Location:
    New York
    WTH is Botany 500? Sounds like a Nascar event... :roma:
     

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