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The StyleForum obsessions

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by Luc-Emmanuel, Feb 9, 2005.

  1. Luc-Emmanuel

    Luc-Emmanuel Senior member

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    I've been lurking on this forum for a little while, as well as posting on AA which seems a little more conservative.
    Here are my thoughts...

    The "slim fitting" obsession : this must be an american thing, where all your clothes over there have to be cut for big people. The urgent need you have to show everyone else that you are thin by wearing tight clothes strikes me as a very woman-like behaviour. But again, if I were surrounded by fat people (read : poor white trash), I would probably also feel the need to show how fitted I am (being able to afford luxury clothes, nice fresh food & vegetables...etc).

    The good bargain obsession : closely related to the precedent, bargain hunting for luxury clothes you cannot afford at the real price drives to buying one size smaller, bigger ...etc Having this clothes massively retailored to fit you drives to ill-fitting silhouette. Accept your body as it is, if you can't afford a Dior Homme suit, don't buy one instead of snatching one from ebay at discount which doesn't even fit you well.

    The Ralph Lauren Purple Label obsession : this one speaks for itself. Come on, ultra tight shirt where you can't even move your arms with a double pleated white pants and a tie folded into the waistband ??? Who would even think dressing like such a clown ?

    It's a bit trollish I admit. Feel free to flame.

    .Luc
     
  2. acole

    acole Senior member

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    Neither graceful nor beautiful, warthogs are nonetheless remarkable animals. They are found in most of Africa south of the Sahara and are widely distributed in East Africa. They are the only pigs able to live in areas without water for several months of the year. By tolerating a higher-than-normal body temperature, the warthog is perhaps able to conserve moisture inside its body that might otherwise be used for cooling. (Camels and desert gazelles have developed a similar mechanism for survival in hot, arid environments.)

    Males weigh 20 to 50 pounds more than females, but both are distinguished by disproportionately large heads and the warts-thick protective-pads that appear on both sides of the head. Two large pairs of warts occur below the eyes, and between the eyes and the tusks, and a very small pair is found near the jaw (usually just in males).

    The face is fairly flat and the snout elongated. Eyes set high on the head enables the warthog to keep a lookout for predators even when it lowers its head to feed on short grass. The warthog's large tusks are unusual: The two upper ones emerge from the sides of the snout to form a semicircle; the lower tusks at the base of the uppers are worn to a sharp cutting edge.

    Sparse bristles cover the warthog's body, although longer bristles form a mane from the top of the head down the spine to the middle of the back. The skin is gray or black (or yellowish or reddish, if the warthog has been wallowing in mud). The long tail ends with a tuft of bristles. The warthog characteristically carries its tail upright when it runs, the tuft waving like a tiny flag. As the young run in single file, the tail position may serve as a signal to keep them all together. Warthogs trot with a springy gait but they are known to run surprisingly fast.
     
  3. Ranjeev

    Ranjeev Senior member

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    Live and learn. I always thought warthogs were a brown and gray melange and now I find out that they are gray or black.
     
  4. Trilby

    Trilby Senior member

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    I can imagine this thread rapidly deteriorating into a flamewar -- so I might come to regret adding to it.

    However, I think Luc-Emmanuel's point about the good bargain obsession is pretty accurate. We all appreciate finding a good deal. However, if it doesn't fit properly, is not flattering, or is badly damaged, it's not a good bargain -- even if it is on sale.

    I'm sure that we have all bought things that we later regretted, just because they were on sale. However, it really isn't a good deal if, to take a few recent examples from here: a suit would have to taken apart and entirely recut to make it fit properly; a jacket has a large moth hole in it; or a pair of shoes is two or three sizes too narrow. The shoes, especially, I don't understand -- even if the shoes are absolutely gorgeous, I can't imagine wanting to wear them if they hurt your feet.

    I would much rather buy one thing that I am thrilled with, even if I have to pay full price, than buy several inferior, compromised items on sale.
     
  5. Walter

    Walter Senior member

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    You are a wise man.
    I have fallen several times for bargains, but now Ibefore I buy something on sale, I ask myself "would buy it anyway"? If the answer is no, I don't buy it.
    Surprisingly, since then, I am better dressed.
     
  6. Alias

    Alias Senior member

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    The OP's comments aren't trollish at all.

    The "slim fitting" obsession didn't start with America. Check out those old pictures of the Duke in slim-fitting suits. As for woman-like behavior, there's nothing wrong with taking some pride in how you look. In fact, there's a lot of good to come from it, since looks play a big part in first impressions.

    I'm only obsessed with good bargains as long as they're things like ties, shoes, and belts. For suits and shirts, I go MTM or bespoke. Lucky for me, being in Asia, I have (relatively) inexpensive options for both.

    I don't know if a lot of people on the board are obsessed with RLPL. It's only mentioned here and there.
     
  7. oldskool

    oldskool Senior member

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    On the point of bairgains: Why settle for an inferior product when you can have the superior product at the same price by waiting until the end of the season? I can't but a Banana Republic suit for $500, knowing I can have my size in the $1,000 suit I want for $500. Make sense?

    On RL? He's an American icon, why anyone... if you don't like his clothes, don;t wear them.

    Your post is concerning because criticism usually implies a dual message. Like going on chowhound.com and complaining everyone spends too much money on food. This is a board for people with a common interest in nice clothes, no?
     
  8. Luc-Emmanuel

    Luc-Emmanuel Senior member

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    What I'm trying to tell you is that you probably won't have the exact suit you have been waiting for, it will be sold. So you may end up buying a $1000 suit for $500, but not the one you had coveted for the whole season. It simply doesn't happen, at least not with the designers I usually buy. At best I will get a 30% rebate.

    I don't own any, mind you.

    I have my share of nice clothes. I'm not criticizing anyone who is spending large sums of money on clothes, I'm the first one to do so. You are misunderstanding my point. What I'm trying to say is : it's not necessarily a nice clothe because
    a - I paid 70% off and it doesn't fit me
    b - It's slim fitting.
    c - It's made by Ralph Lauren in Italy

    .luc
     
  9. bryce330

    bryce330 Senior member

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    The point of wearing slim-fitting clothes is not "to show everyone else how thin you are." In fact, I find that thin people actually look even skinnier when they are wearing ridiculously oversized clothes that are clearly not designed for their body type. I prefer slim-fitting clothes because I don't like having yards of extra fabric billowing around my waist or thighs or drooping over my shoulders. I don't think there's anything "woman-like" about that.

    There's also a difference between "slim-fitting" and "tight," which you fail to appreciate.

    Finally, I doubt people who wear RLPL (or other labels) wear it the exact same way as the models, such as tucking in the tie. Also, their shirts are not nearly as slim-fitting as shown in their ads.
     
  10. imageWIS

    imageWIS Senior member

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    Flaming away:

    You misunderstand "˜Slim fit', because terms are double / tripled / quadrupled when it comes to meaning on the forum. The correct term should be "˜correct fit', i.e. correct fit for the particular persons body type. The reason "˜slim fit' is mentioned is because most shirts are way too blousy, tents really and anything else is "˜slim' in comparison. Plus, no one ever said it's skintight, nay a bit of moving room is always emphasized, especially by the experts on the forum.

    Onto which I am unsure if you understand fashion displays and retail products. I suggest you take a look at RLPL items at your local store that carries them before mentioning assumptions. RLPL items are extremely loose fitting and we all know that the pictures on the web site feature models wearing articles, which have been pinned and thus the skintight appearance appears. As well, the pictures are a display of their clothing (there is a name for this which at the moment escapes my mind) in different combinations, which will get your attention. They are by no means a suggestion on the part of a particular company to suggest one should wear their products as shown.

    Alas, RLPL is mentioned because of their consistent quality and top-notch construction / material use. As well, it is designed in a "˜classical' style, which appeals to many on the forum.

    Not all poor white trash is fat and not all wealthy people are skinny. Just come to Palm Beach and take a look. Generalizations are in no way a means onto which an argument should be based; without stating at least first that you are indeed making a generalization for the sake of argument.

    Luc, are you in France?

    Jon.
     
  11. Luc-Emmanuel

    Luc-Emmanuel Senior member

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    Bryce, slim fitting clothes is a fashion trend, nothing more. Look at the models on the RL site, if slim fitting shirts were not a marketing ploy to appeal to a certain type of customers, they would not exagerate that look to the point where these shirts are probably not even wearable. I make a difference between a fitted shirt and a slim fitting shirt. The fitted shirt is a shirt with right sleeve length, correct shoulder length : your typical MTM shirt. A slim fitting shirt, on the contrary, is tappered to follow your body curve : this is style, this is fashion [​IMG] For all of you looking for slim fitting shirts, look for Helmut Lang : I have a handful size 15, and these are really slim . .luc
     
  12. oldskool

    oldskool Senior member

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    BTW when they set up shots, they use clips on the drap of shirts and such so the models look more polished. I own my share of RLPL shirts and none of them are so slim in reality.

    If you were to turn around any of those models, you would see the excess material all clipped up for the photo.
     
  13. Luc-Emmanuel

    Luc-Emmanuel Senior member

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    To ImageWIS: Yes, these were gross generalizations for the sake of the argument. I just defined fitted and slim fit, I should have done this in the first post. We somehow agree on that for now [​IMG] yes, I live in france. cheers .luc
     
  14. Steve B.

    Steve B. Senior member

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    Ah, now we understand. [​IMG] I, for one, am now less likely to flame.
     
  15. Alias

    Alias Senior member

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    Well, I can't say we had a lot of people ogling over RLPL's latest skin-tight offerings. What we did have was me and Chuck laughing about how tight they were. On the other hand, a lot of people were impressed by the new Black Label offerings, which are really, really skinny. You thought Purple Label was tight? At least it had decent shoulders. Black Label is SKIIIIINNY, at least from what I saw of it in that GQ article. I'm a very skinny guy. My wrists are 6" in circumference, my waist is 30". I don't go around walking in tight suits, because they'll make me look ridiculous. Instead, I focus on an overall balanced look. Besides, getting a suit too tight causes all sorts of problems, especially if your shirt isn't tight to match and if the suit is made of lightweight fabric.
     
  16. Luc-Emmanuel

    Luc-Emmanuel Senior member

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    mack : thanks for clearing this up for me. In retrospect, I may have been a bit offensive.

    Alias : well, I wear 30" pants as well (46ITA or 30" jeans), but my chest is bigger, more than 37" so I usually don't fit in 46ITA Costume National coats. This is the only designer where I have to wear a 48 coat. Jil Sander & Helmut Lang fit well at 46. Granted, bargains are hard to find on these items, especially in 46 or 44 and I'm not quite to the point where I accept to pay 1400 euro for a suit.
    On RLBL, I have seen the pictures on this board, and I must admit they look neat. Although, once again, I can't help but thinking RL has just invested a new market niche to make big money.

    .luc
     
  17. Carlo

    Carlo Senior member

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    Well I've dropped 30 pounds recently so I'm having to replace or alter many garments that are now more 'slim fitting'

    ...And if anyone says that is womanly of me then I will promptly slap the hell out of them with my purse.
     
  18. whnay.

    whnay. Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Isn't that what he is suppose to do as a business owner? I personally don't like the line all that much, although, I'll make my final judgement when I see the clothes in person.

    Any ideas when RLBL is expects to be released?
     
  19. Mike C.

    Mike C. Senior member

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    It's out right now in only select RL retail stores. I know that the mansion store on 72nd and Madison has them.
     
  20. Brian SD

    Brian SD Senior member

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    You're knocking slim-fitting yet you wear Jil, Helmut, and Ennio? Perhaps we're just thinking on different terms here... because in America (you're in paris, right?), 80% of suits sold are baggy sack suits. Nordstrom-brand is typical. Slim-fitting is Jil Sander. Dior Homme is tight.

    Most of the members here are very aware on what is a good fit and what is not. We all know our measurements and have a good idea how a garment with the correct measurements posted will fit. Not sure where you get this idea that every time something is found at a discount or on ebay, it's too big/too small. Many of us search very extensively for a good deal on something *in our size*, and only a few times are successful. I've been looking for a good deal on a grey 3-button forever now. I could just order one full-retail and deal with the convenience, or I could keep waiting for the perfect one to show up at a good discount online.
     

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