+ The Streetwear Suits and Blazers Thread +

[Parker]

various white/cream/offwhite suits and blazers

 

[StanleyVanBuren]

Hi.

I'm reviving this thread to talk about my ongoing suit quest. I'm moving the discussion here because I'm trying to be sensitive to the other posters in WAYWT who may not want pages upon pages of suit talk in between space pirate and sand ninja fits, but I want to keep the discussion on this side of the wall because -- and I really need to make this clear from the beginning -- I am not looking to achieve "conservative business dress" or follow any other current CM trends. Which is not to say some won't sneak in but I don't want that to be the starting point.

So my stated objective at this point is to achieve a 70s/80s look minus the extreme trends that would border on anachronism (ie flared pants, 4"+ ties, etc). One of my sources of inspiration is the suits Roger Moore wore in his early Bond films. I've been thoroughly reading all the posts on Suits of James Bond to learn about the details. At times the pants were too flared, the lapels were a little too wide, and details like the "link cuff" where the jacket sleeves are buttoned at the end like a french cuff can probably be left aside, but the overall cut features a lot of elements that I think would work well for me; a lower buttoning point, longer jackets, fuller chests, trim waists, and full-cut pants.


medium-wide lapels, buttoning point at true waist just above belt, lower button just below belt, jacket length is on the longer side


full-cut pants, full break






deep vents


Tall, point (or moderate spread) shirt collars:






So anyway, with all that in mind, I purchased a used YSL suit I found on ebay for a steal because it appeared to incorporate a lot of these elements. It has the longer length, lower buttoning point, deep vents, and relatively trim waist. The pants are full-cut but stop short of being flared. The lapels are a pretty moderate 3 inches (which if I have copied I would probably increase to 3.5"). Here is the latest on how it is looking:

I will probably skip the pocket square from now on.

I also grabbed a navy blazer. Lapels are 3.75":

And on the shirt front, I'm working on a point/moderate spread collar with long/long-ish points to wear with these looks, but the first round has turned out too narrow, I think. I'm going to see if Luxire can widen the spread on this going forward, but what do you guys think so far?





here it is with the navy blazer and a 3.5" wide tie:


I don't think the height is quite right but I'm not sure how to fix this other than by increasing the collar band, which is already pretty large. I asked for 1 5/8 inch front collar band height, 1 13/16 rear collar band height, 2 inch rear collar height. Larger than that and the collar band starts to look too large. This is what the shirt looks like from the photos Luxire provided me before they shipped it:



Anyway, thoughts/suggestions welcome; more on this as it progresses.

 

[SeaJen]

Looks to me as though you have hit the intended mark pretty well, so perhaps one of the shorter quests one may undertake. I can't see anything in particular that needs changing to approach Roger's look.

you never expressed the intention (at least not as specifically as you have here) in the CM threads, so the advice given was in terms of how to improve the look, not how to make it look like an 80's suit. Like it or not, when you ask a group, that his its own norms, what to change they will encourage changes towards the norm - that is not a CM-specific phenomena.

 

[kashmir]

I followed that discussion quite closely. I understood CM classical proportions but I agree they tend to have that sort of myopia, which I'm starting to get sick of seeing in the Pitti pics and some of the waywt (no padding at all! even though my shoulders are sloping 45'!). This has much more attitude than your epaulet suit, though that suit also works for what it is.

Especially in your frame I think the Roger Moore influence works. The lower V and buttoning point, the length, everything. Probably you could experiment with waist supression; just a little bit will already affect the look. Just pin the two back panel seams yourself and see how it looks in the mirror- adjusting the amount of surpression according to your taste. Definitely no spread collar; long narrow spear collar looks much better, button down or not. The pants are also fine; probably a bit of slimming in the thigh to get a subtle flare will do good, but it has to be just the right amount and probably take a few tries.

Oh, and go tieless but fully buttoned up with the tall point collar for that Basquiat awesomeness.

 

[Synthese]

This is neither here nor there but Moore is the worse Bond ever and I have no idea why you would want to be like him in anything

(Roger if you're reading this it's just jealousy)

 

[StanleyVanBuren]

This is neither here nor there but Moore is the worse Bond ever and I have no idea why you would want to be like him in anything

(Roger if you're reading this it's just jealousy)

I actually agree with that, but I like the suits.

 

[Caveat]

Stanley, I was just going to post the other day that you remind me of Maxwell Smart. I have no doubt you've got some Bond in you, but you're going to have to sharpen up.

 

[Parker]

Anyway, thoughts/suggestions welcome; more on this as it progresses.

Hey Stanley, glad you put the discussion here. I think you're pretty close to your objective with that tan suit and the new shirt. The high set, narrow shoulder and contoured waist are good. I'd look for a slightly wider lapel and better looking notch. That YSL has a slightly too frog-mouth* notch to have that English Roger Moore look I think you're after. *I think that's a real term for French style notches. You may even go for slant pockets or even a ticket pocket. I'd go even higher with the shirt collar.. and slightly more spread so the points fall under the jacket lapel. See Duke of Kent for jumbo collars and mega 70s ties. That 3.5" tie loooks good to me. Also as you probably know I think a four-in-hand always looks better and definitely with this style of suit.

my 2cents advice: keep the overall look in more monotone/solids in good fabrics to keep it from looking like bad used car salesman. This might mean not buying vintage mass-produced versions. ahem, Savile Row bespoke or maybe look for some RTW like Richard Anderson, Kilgour, Gieves & Hawes, etc. Also while all these retro details are nice, the overall silhouette should just work with your frame. Roger Moore was a hulking barrel chested tall dude so his suit might not work for you.

I appreciate you exploring a look outside the au courant soft look. Back in the old SF days there were a few guys who were into the English structured look but they don't seem to be around anymore. (though I dont knwo because I mostly hang out in the back alleys of streetwear now).

This pic of Moore is great. Looks modern still today and it's all business. No funny stripey patterns or ugly brown ****. Yet the big collar and tie give it a robust 70s vibe -- just not too far over the top.



edit: Don Adams > any Bond ever

 

[StanleyVanBuren]

Hey Stanley, glad you put the discussion here. I think you're pretty close to your objective with that tan suit and the new shirt. The high set, narrow shoulder and contoured waist are good. I'd look for a slightly wider lapel and better looking notch. That YSL has a slightly too frog-mouth* notch to have that English Roger Moore look I think you're after. *I think that's a real term for French style notches. You may even go for slant pockets or even a ticket pocket. I'd go even higher with the shirt collar.. and slightly more spread so the points fall under the jacket lapel. See Duke of Kent for jumbo collars and mega 70s ties. That 3.5" tie loooks good to me. Also as you probably know I think a four-in-hand always looks better and definitely with this style of suit.

my 2cents advice: keep the overall look in more monotone/solids in good fabrics to keep it from looking like bad used car salesman. This might mean not buying vintage mass-produced versions. ahem, Savile Row bespoke or maybe look for some RTW like Richard Anderson, Kilgour, Gieves & Hawes, etc. Also while all these retro details are nice, the overall silhouette should just work with your frame. Roger Moore was a hulking barrel chested tall dude so his suit might not work for you.

So I think the plan will be to send the YSL suit to Luxire to have them copy it. Like you suggest, I think a wider lapel would be good and they should be able to modify this without trouble. My plan would be to ask them to widen the lapels from the current approximately 7.5cm to 9cm. That should match up with any 3.5" or 9cm ties that I buy to go with this look, which is a pretty standard width, and even a lot of the guys in CM are favoring 9cm ties these days so places like Drakes, Exquisite Trimmings, and Shibumi will have some nice options for me to avoid an all-vintage-everything look. I also agree with the suggestion of hacking/slanted pockets. I might increase the width of the pockets fro 2" to 2.5" inches if I do that, too. I'll probably save that for a later order as I don't want to try too many variations at first.

I think you're spot on with your suggestion to stick with "more monotone/solids in good fabrics" and I definitely agree that the Moore picture you quoted is probably where he is looking his best. Note that he's wearing a bit more of a spread collar in that shot; it's probably closer to a 5" spread than Ecru shirt (which I am guessing has a spread of 3.5 to 4") or the stripey one which is somewhere in between the two. Oh and I've looked around for a nice solid dark red tie like the above too but have not had much luck, so if anyone has any recommendations there, that would be great.

I do need to decide what fabric to copy the suit in. Luxire will do a test-fit jacket for a pretty low price, but it will be in cotton. I can choose any of their cotton pants fabrics that are priced below $120. Ordinarily, tan would be the obvious choice but at this point would be redundant. Cotton is going to be more casual so I was thinking this might be the right opportunity to go for something like a chocolate brown, but now I am thinking maybe this "steel-blue" would be better?

chocolate brown:


steel blue:


Anyway let me reiterate that I don't want to just carbon copy Moore's look. I'm mainly just posting these images because I think they are good inspiration and fit the general aesthetic (but may vary on some of the details). Like I think the frogmouth notches on the YSL suit are cool actually, so I'm inclined to keep those. And like I said before stuff like the overly-flared pants and link button sleeves aren't worth bringing back. And Synth is right that Moore was probably the worst Bond actually, and the images I posted above are probably the least offensive of his looks which got progressively worse as he got more and more age-inappropriate for the role.


Oh! You mentioned, well... I think you meant to mention Prince Michael of Kent. I've had him in the back of my mind on this endeavor too. He's had some great looks. He favors double-breasted suits, which aren't really my thing, and his ties are past the point of being too wide for my tastes as well, but he's still a good example of someone who appears to have found his personal style in the 70s and has more or less stuck with it:











Look at that fraying on the collar! That's earned, not manufactured. The image above appears to demonstrate that contrary to what one might think, his shirts are not made with a ton of tie space, he just wears them unbuttoned at the collar and uses his super-wide ties to cover up the gap. But I like his collars; they are tall, wide, and have long points. Prince Michael has a very long neck, like I do. He looks much better with a beard, which i think I do too. James Bond would never have a beard but Prince Michael is a great example of someone who like me, should probably not do without. From what I can tell of searching the google archives, once he grew his, he kept it.

Photos of him without a tie are rare but there are some:





It looks like the collar is a 2-button fastening and the band may be as tall as 2 inches.

This one looks like it might only be one-button fastening:


Some of the height seems to be coming just from the collar itself rather than the collar band; in other words the rear height of the band might be 2 inches and the collar is 2.5. Obviously his shirts are custom-made so I'm just trying to study the photos and come to some conclusions through guess work. Luckily the folks at Luxire have been patient with me so far with all the trial and error involved.

 

[Synthese]

that dude looks 100% rad as ****

 

[Parker]

Stanley, cotton is gonna look a lot different than wool. But I guess if you treat it as a test jacket just for shape and size (like a muslin prototyp) it's ok -- it's just not gonna drape or hang the same. also brown?? c'mon downtown LA dude.

yeah that's the royal shmoyal I meant.

 

[StanleyVanBuren]

Yeah, it's just for test purposes. The main concern is can they replicate the measurements correctly and stuff like the right amount of shoulder padding, sleeve pitch, etc. From what I understand from people who have sent jackets or suits in, they are very thorough, but it's still worth doing a test fit in cotton before dropping $800+ on wool. If the cotton suit comes out well, these are the wool fabrics that I'm [at least for now] considering:

Minnis Fresco Light Grey

• Weight:9 oz-10 oz (280 gms -310 gms)

Dugdale Cape Breeze: Greystone Blue

• 70% wool 30% Mohair, 240 gms/8 oz

Note that these are of course going to be in the $800-1k range so this is not all going to happen tomorrow. I ordered swatches of these with my most recent shirt order (which is yet to arrive) so I can check them out in person before ordering.

On the test fit jacket they offer the option of canvas for only $75 which they say is "not wearable" or cotton for $150 which is wearable. If it's going to be wearable, I may as well get something in a color I don't already have, right? I guess what you are saying is that brown is not wearable in LA or in 2015. I was just thinking it might make sense to try something other than navy or grey.

 

[Parker]

I'm just giving you a hard time. I just don't really like brown suits or dark brown in general (except shoes). I would pick steel blue always over brown. You know you can wear whatever you want in LA or in 2015. Gray Fresco is a nice choice. I still think a business style suit will always look better in dark blue or dark gray. Light gray suits say "leisure time" to me or you have to be in a reallly warm climate (which you are).

 

[StanleyVanBuren]

What do you guys think of this shirt collar?





When I saw this, I thought it had too much spread still so I had Luxire remake it to be narrower, but then ended up with the point collar shirt above that I think ultimately came out too narrow. This one has 3.5" points, a full inch of tie space, and a 5 inch spread. I'm now thinking this may have been closer to what I wanted and would probably not look as wide when worn.

My other thought regarding collar design would be to increase the band to 2 inches and the rear collar leaf height to something like 2.5" (like what I am guessing Prince Michael's shirts are) but I have no idea how/if that would actually turn out and I feel like I'm taking stabs in the dark and Luxire is going to lose patience with me ordering 10 different collar styles before I'm satisfied...

 

[ghdvfddzgzdzg]

How is Moore a worse Bond than Dalton