• STYLE. COMMUNITY. GREAT CLOTHING.

    Bored of counting likes on social networks? At Styleforum, you’ll find rousing discussions that go beyond strings of emojis.

    Click Here to join Styleforum's thousands of style enthusiasts today!

The state of white tie

Nobilis Animus

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2017
Messages
361
Reaction score
227
I live in Los Angeles - when I do get the chance to go to a BT gathering (alas for the cancelled charity galas this year), they are seldom during a time of the year when an overcoat would be necessary. An overcoat is never really necessary in Los Angeles.

I am woefully underequipped for cold weather. End of last year I was on a bit of puddle jumping spree. Was in China in Oct/Early November, where the south was hot. Then in Japan up until thanksgiving, and Kyoto never got above brisk. Got back to LA for thanksgiving, then was off to NY less than a week later. Landed in slacks, a blazer, no gloves, no overcoat, no hat. I had a scarf.....and a snowstorm had just blown in that morning. I was.....not doing well.
Too many cancelled shows and galas this year...we can only hope it improves for the rest of the season.

I see that same scenario every year here when newcomers to the city decide they'd rather not bother with either a parka (too puffy?) or a heavy coat (too formal). Then they feel the wind tunnels in Toronto.

Sounds like quite a trip all the same. Any sightings of white tie out there? :bigstar: (or otherwise)
 

ValidusLA

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 14, 2019
Messages
561
Reaction score
444
Unfortunately not. My experience in China was that almost no one wore anything they didn't have to. In Shanghai I was mostly by the international hotel area so not the business district. Lots of high fashion ladies, but the men in Shanghai were quite under dressed.

Was also in Taipei - lots of black and grey suits, nothing more than that.

In Kyoto did a whirhwind of kaiseki, in the ** and *** range. I wore a suit to each one, and at one somewhat famous centuries old establishment I saw clients in t-shirts and was sad. Didn't see any BT or WT in Japan, but I'm not exactly invited to society events there.

In Osaka I saw mostly business travelers.

NY I was in midtown for business, so naturally wearing a tie I was dressed up there these days.
 

Nobilis Animus

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2017
Messages
361
Reaction score
227
Unfortunately not. My experience in China was that almost no one wore anything they didn't have to. In Shanghai I was mostly by the international hotel area so not the business district. Lots of high fashion ladies, but the men in Shanghai were quite under dressed.

Was also in Taipei - lots of black and grey suits, nothing more than that.

In Kyoto did a whirhwind of kaiseki, in the ** and *** range. I wore a suit to each one, and at one somewhat famous centuries old establishment I saw clients in t-shirts and was sad. Didn't see any BT or WT in Japan, but I'm not exactly invited to society events there.

In Osaka I saw mostly business travelers.

NY I was in midtown for business, so naturally wearing a tie I was dressed up there these days.
It seems to be the rule these days: even when the ladies are well-dressed, the man looks dumpy. High time we changed that for the better.

Not surprised that the general business dress was rather mundane, but I am a little annoyed at the kaiseki experience. Japanese traditions are something of an interest for me, and it's sad that they are also experiencing erosion in this way.

That's why I'm happy to see when others are going out in suits or even modern fashion here for any event. There may be a slipping away from business formal in the office, but I think we may soon see a shift towards finer clothes in daily life. It's been that way at certain venues before the pandemic, as I mentioned before - lots of BT at ballets, etc.
 

ValidusLA

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 14, 2019
Messages
561
Reaction score
444
It seems to be the rule these days: even when the ladies are well-dressed, the man looks dumpy. High time we changed that for the better.

Not surprised that the general business dress was rather mundane, but I am a little annoyed at the kaiseki experience. Japanese traditions are something of an interest for me, and it's sad that they are also experiencing erosion in this way.

That's why I'm happy to see when others are going out in suits or even modern fashion here for any event. There may be a slipping away from business formal in the office, but I think we may soon see a shift towards finer clothes in daily life. It's been that way at certain venues before the pandemic, as I mentioned before - lots of BT at ballets, etc.
I was also let down by what was going on in the kyoto kaiseki restaurants. Oddly the Osaka Michelin starred restaurants everyone was more appropriately attired (in my opinion)>

I was there during koyo specifically for leaf change, timing ended up perfect, so I was expecting due to the crowded nature of the city the restaurants would have been reserved by more on the ball types. Alas I was wrong.

Honestly I was wearing sport coats and ties while touring shrines and temples - considering most of the tourists there are mainland Chinese tour groups in tshirts who jump over dividing ropes and have almost no interest in following the rules, the whole thing is harder to enjoy than I wish it could be.
 

poorsod

Distinguished Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2005
Messages
4,235
Reaction score
870
I used my white tie rig 3 times in this year in January and Februar. I suspect all the usual balls I go to in the US are going to be cancelled. The ones in Europe may still go ahead, but I am not sure if I would be allowed in.
 

Nobilis Animus

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2017
Messages
361
Reaction score
227
I used my white tie rig 3 times in this year in January and Februar. I suspect all the usual balls I go to in the US are going to be cancelled. The ones in Europe may still go ahead, but I am not sure if I would be allowed in.
Yes, it's a widespread problem - the dearth of events this season. There does seem to be some chance for next year's winter, though.

Actually, I am personally expecting a resurgence in formal clothing very soon. I think the shift had been in the works long before this virus, and people are going to go back to tailoring once this is all over.
 

martingfx

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2017
Messages
98
Reaction score
290
Need a black waistcoat to my white tie rig but can't find any that are cut "short" enough like the white marcella ones. Any tips on where to get one?
 

AdductorMagnus

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 4, 2015
Messages
201
Reaction score
222
Have one tailored. Or take a white one in your size with the proper length to a seamstress to replicate in black.
 

Zerase

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2016
Messages
561
Reaction score
1,216
I have found a lot of them in Swedish second hand stores and also a fair bit online. Although, most of them are vintage and cut in a heavier wool than the modern ones. I bought mine for like 5€ or so and got another three from various white tie sets I have bought.
 

poorsod

Distinguished Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2005
Messages
4,235
Reaction score
870
What’s the occasion for a blackwaist coat with a white tie rig other than as a servant on Downton Abbey?
 

martingfx

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2017
Messages
98
Reaction score
290
I have found a lot of them in Swedish second hand stores and also a fair bit online. Although, most of them are vintage and cut in a heavier wool than the modern ones. I bought mine for like 5€ or so and got another three from various white tie sets I have bought.
It’s just so tedious to search for a specific item in second hand stores... But I suspect it’s my best bet.
What’s the occasion for a blackwaist coat with a white tie rig other than as a servant on Downton Abbey?
Poker night with the lads?

Also used in fraternal organisations where I’ll probably use it most.
 

Thin White Duke

Distinguished Member
Joined
Dec 5, 2010
Messages
3,031
Reaction score
3,955
What’s the occasion for a blackwaist coat with a white tie rig other than as a servant on Downton Abbey?
On the subject of white tie and Downton Abbey, in the film which came out last year - during the big finale ballroom scene (which was filmed at Wentworth Woodhouse so I can lay claim to have danced on the same ballroom as it was student accommodation during my youth) ... I noticed first that the king was wearing knee breeches and showing off his order of the garter. Then Mrs. Hughes says to Carson “you‘ve got your britches on”. Then you notice most / all of the men aren’t wearing trousers like Fred Astaire but stockings and breeches. I’ve never noticed this before and even accepting that trousers evolved from knee breeches that Beau Brummell et al would have worn, I would have guessed they’d have been phased out long before the conventions of white tie became set.
Anyone know the history of this? Why the throwback to breeches in 1927?
 

martingfx

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2017
Messages
98
Reaction score
290
Looks pretty damn dandy tbh! Would also like to know when they opt for the breeches.

F59A8966-342F-4B06-8B65-264D280BCE45.jpeg
 

Zerase

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2016
Messages
561
Reaction score
1,216
What’s the occasion for a blackwaist coat with a white tie rig other than as a servant on Downton Abbey?
A black waistcoat is used when there are no ladies around. I am a member of two different academic fraternal orders and the only time we use the white waistcoat is when we have balls with women. On our regular chapters we use our black waistcoats.
 

Styleforum is proudly sponsored by

Featured Sponsor

Most Interesting Fashion Collaboration of 2020

  • JW Anderson x Uniqlo

  • Nigo x Virgil Abloh

  • Converse x Midnight Studios

  • Rick Owens x Champion

  • Barbour x Engineered Garments

  • Adidas x Bed JW Ford

  • Jordan Brand x Dior

  • Billie Eilish x Takashi Murakami

  • Lego x Levi's


Results are only viewable after voting.

Related Threads

Forum statistics

Threads
446,452
Messages
9,655,215
Members
201,759
Latest member
faziystivin
Top