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The state of white tie

paxonus

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What I notice first are the sleeves. Nothing looks more infantile than overlong sleeves. Well, that, and a demeanor that says, “Mommy put me in this snowsuit and now I can’t move.”

My worry is, regular men and boys will see the so-called “most powerful man in the world”—one with a daughter in the fashion industry, for crying out loud—soundly defeated by white tie in front of the whole world. And they quite reasonably will conclude that if he can’t bring it off, neither can they.
I doubt anyone these days looks to the president for fashion advice. The last time the president had any influence on current fashion was probably Kennedy, who didn't wear a hat.
 

LA Guy

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ValidusLA

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The US is increasingly populist, Dressing in any way ths suggests that you enjoy clothing has been a politcal bad move for a long while now.
Super true. I have contemplated dreams of politics in the future, but ultimately its not worth it. I have facial hair, enjoy things from Europe and Asia, and like wearing colors besides navy, grey, black, white, red, and blue.

All of those things are political suicide.
 

brax

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You'd think that the Trumps would have retained Manton at the White House for, at a minimum, his sense of proper attire.
 

0Phoenix0

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I could not get an answer in the German sister forum, so I'd like to give it a try here:

What is the right "white tie" for German courts (judges and lawyers)? The robes that we wear have a high buttoning point. Should there be a (white) waistcoat underneath it too? Shirt with studs instead of buttons? Wing collar? And is the white marcella bow tie the right tie, as it is an expression of the highest grade of formality? In reality, most of the judges and lawyers just wear a normal white shirt and a white (often microfibre) necktie, which looks really odd.
 
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Nobilis Animus

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So I thought to revive this thread in order to pose the following for discussion:

Operas. One of the few instances where full evening dress is explicitly called for, so long as the seats are the best, or the evening is an opening performance. I suppose that what puts many off the possibility of tails for the night instead of black tie is the cost associated with obtaining the right seats, drinks, clothing details, etc. If price is no object, would you still go so far for a formal performance, or is it too much to ask?
 

ValidusLA

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I would ultimately never opt to wear White Tie unless it was an event with an upheld dress code.

I have worn it extensively at Debutante Balls where everyone does it.

I dont particularly like it though, whereas I do like Black Tie. So if I could wear BT as opposed to WT (because WT is not asked for) I would always choose to.
 

Nobilis Animus

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Interesting. I've always thought black tie felt more like another suit - comfortable and sharp, but not too much different.

I'm guessing that custom black tie outfits are slightly more common, too.
 

ValidusLA

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I had a bespoke midnight blue rig made for my wedding and I love it. Very dark, very elegant.

(I do not have a bespoke tail coat. I have considered it, but I live in Los Angeles and would get 0 use out of it these days).
 

JFWR

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So I thought to revive this thread in order to pose the following for discussion:

Operas. One of the few instances where full evening dress is explicitly called for, so long as the seats are the best, or the evening is an opening performance. I suppose that what puts many off the possibility of tails for the night instead of black tie is the cost associated with obtaining the right seats, drinks, clothing details, etc. If price is no object, would you still go so far for a formal performance, or is it too much to ask?
Admittedly, I have not been to an opening night at the opera, but whenever I have attended the opera, I have never once seen anyone dressed even remotely better than a suit and that is rare and infrequent.

This is in New York at the Met, so perhaps it is different elsewhere, but the only white tie event that is routinely held is the Met Gala, and that is far above my celebrity to be invited to.
 

Nobilis Animus

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Admittedly, I have not been to an opening night at the opera, but whenever I have attended the opera, I have never once seen anyone dressed even remotely better than a suit and that is rare and infrequent.

This is in New York at the Met, so perhaps it is different elsewhere, but the only white tie event that is routinely held is the Met Gala, and that is far above my celebrity to be invited to.
That actually surprises me, although I have never been to the Met. Most attendees of any opera nowadays will obviously not be in formal clothes, but suits are hardly formal.

In contrast, the opera house in Toronto seems to be a step up. On the opening night of Rufus Wainwright's new opera (terrible, should have been a play), there were plenty of patrons in black tie and ladies in gowns. And at the Sleeping Beauty ballet at the same house, about two years ago, several others were definitely also in white tie. Now these were clearly not the majority of audience members, but it was nice to see some people making a night of it.

It probably does depend on who is inviting whom, though, as those who dressed more formally were more of the Society set.
 

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