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The state of white tie

marcodalondra

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White tie, the most formal of men outfits and a very rare sight nowadays as the occasions to wear it are very scarce if you are not in an orchestra.

The major problem today is that if the trouser is not cut very high, the waistcoat is worn too low and create an unsightly white band under the tailcoat.

Anyway, Cameron, whom probably had a bespoke one as a student, apparently is now known to rent it to be seen as more "common" (and for the same reasons he initially wanted to attend Prince William wedding in a lounge suit).

Here he is today at The Lord Mayor annual banquet:




http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2501697/Cameron-Austerity-Britain-used-leaner-efficient-state.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490
 

poorsod

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I just had a second fitting for tails about 1-2 weeks ago. The waistcoat had to be adjusted. It seems a common problem.
 

archibaldleach

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Subscribed. Looking forward to discussion on this. At least in most parts of the U.S., however, it seems to me that the dark lounge suit has taken the place of black tie and that black tie has taken the place of white tie.
 

random-adam

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White tie, the most formal of men outfits and a very rare sight nowadays as the occasions to wear it are very scarce if you are not in an orchestra.
And even at that, I've sadly yet to see a conductor of a sub-Big Five orchestra pull off correct (let alone properly-fitted) white tie in the US.
 

marcodalondra

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I just had a second fitting for tails about 1-2 weeks ago. The waistcoat had to be adjusted. It seems a common problem.
In some pictures it can be seen that Cameron is wearing a rental type waistcoat with adjustable band behind the neck, and worn low on the collar, so it could be pulled up and worn higher but the problem are the trousers. As I am replacing my RTW dinner suit for a bespoke one, I have actually started with the trousers, then I am addressing the waistcoat and shirt next and then will finalise the jacket as I usually have the buttoning point moving few cm depending on the look I want for a particular suit.
 

poorsod

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Are you using one of your Italian Tailors to make the white tie rig? I have only seen an example by Rubinacci which looked really nice. Do any of them make high waisted pants?

For a tuxedo, low rise pants are okay if you make a double-breasted coat.
 

marcodalondra

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Are you using one of your Italian Tailors to make the white tie rig? I have only seen an example by Rubinacci which looked really nice. Do any of them make high waisted pants?

For a tuxedo, low rise pants are okay if you make a double-breasted coat.
I am replacing my dinner suit not white tie suit. I will be using Gianni Volpe for the waistcoat and jacket and have had the trouser made by Mola. I get my formal trousers (morning and evening) about 5-6cm higher on the abdomen then my regular suit trousers. They can really cut them as high as you want. In my experience they normally cut formal trousers higher then your regular one, but also, during the first measure, I have always been asked where I want the waistband to rest. Volpe has spent his formative years at Schiraldi and Blasi, where most of the Neapolitan upper class used to get their formal wear, so is familiar with body coats. I have seen also examples from Panico and new Formosa (the housband of Victoria of Sweden was wearing it for his wedding).The San Carlo in Naples is still one of the top Opera house in Europe and a lot of the city tailors are used to make white tie rigs for musician. As a matter of fact when I first told Gianni Volpe that I would like to get a white tie coat one day from him, he asked me if I was also a musician :)
 
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poorsod

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What do you mean by "new Formosa "? Is there an old Formosa?
 

marcodalondra

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What do you mean by "new Formosa "? Is there an old Formosa?
There has been a discussion on the Italian Noveporte forum about Formosa years ago, where the son and current owner posted, in a angry manner I may add, talking about the change of house style. Formosa senior was a master tailor, but his son never trained to be one, and defines himself as a business owner. When the dad passed away he took over the business employing tailors, non necessarily ones that had worked for his dad, so people argues that the new Formosa, although still good, was not like the old Formosa. Hope this clarify it.
 

marcodalondra

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Some pictures of the Swedish Royal wedding with the Mentioned white tie rig:



Below check the guy on the right in a cream suit, not clear but he looks like Prince Albert of Monaco, oh dear...

Although the groom tailcoat was cut with a longer front, the trousers were still too low (looks like normal modern suit trouser height) and the waistcoat was therefore visible below it.
Here is the groom in what I believe was an older official engagement picture, with a different, guess not Neapolitan, tailcoat and waistcoat, in which the balance looks a bit better:
and finally, the same guy in what I believe is one of his Formosa's suit
 

poorsod

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Some pictures of the Swedish Royal wedding with the Mentioned white tie rig:


Is this how a DB vest should look? I don't recall seeing one for white tie before. I'm not sure if the bottom is supposed to extend below the front like that.
 

economicus

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That is wrong wrong wrong. You'd think people with time and practically unlimited resources could get this stuff right.
 

marcodalondra

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Is this how a DB vest should look? I don't recall seeing one for white tie before. I'm not sure if the bottom is supposed to extend below the front like that.
No, in fact I mentioned in my post that although the Jacket has been cut with a longer front to allow for lower trousers, the groom trousers have almost a jeans like rise, making the waistcoat also visible. In any case, a double waistcoat with a deeper front then the side, like the best morning version, would have looked better
 

Celadon

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The Swedish Academy:

From the annual meeting in December 2011:

(Source: http://www.svt.se/cachable_image/1354275750/kultur/bok/article883282.svt/alternates/large/svakademien650.jpg)

The current Permanent Secretary, historian Peter Englund lighting a candle:

(Source: http://sverigesradio.se/diverse/appdata/isidor/images/news_images/767/848620_366_244.jpg)

Image from 2002 of members Lars Forssell (poet), Knut Ahnlund (literary critic) and Sten Rudholm (lawyer and civil servant), all now deceased:

(Source: http://gfx.svd-cdn.se/multimedia/dynamic/00404/rudholm3_404671c.jpg)

The recently deceased Ulf Linde (art critic, museum director and jazz musician):

(Source: http://hd.se/multimedia/dynamic/00908/45Kultur-stolelva_0_908277v530x800.jpg)

Former permanent secretary, literary critic Horace Engdahl and his wife Ebba Witt-Brattström (professor of literature):

(Source: http://cdn1.cdnme.se/cdn/6-2/377327/images/2008/ebba_23389510.jpg)

Royals arriving to the annual meeting in 2012


Madeleine's husband Chris O'Neill to the right, the bearded Prince Carl Philip in the background.
Source is a newspaper blog: http://bloggar.aftonbladet.se/hovbloggen/2012/12/chris-oneill-och-madeleine-pa-kungligt-uppdrag/
Another image from the same page shows Daniel, still wearing the same strange waistcoat as in the wedding images above.
 
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