The State of Black Tie: Your Observations

[brax]

Have gone full circle regarding vents. When I began in this business it was a given to have no vents in tuxedos and dinner jackets. Then I would suggest to clients that if all their suits had side vents just stick with that for your tuxedo. It isn't as visual a choice as SB vs DB or lapel style. Would probably go unnoticed to anyone you meet.
Over the last few years more clients have requested no vent and have to say it makes the jacket more elegant. My opinion. Another distinction to semi formal attire from the suit or jacket worn everyday.
No vent has been the standard for clients with larger hips. It's a logical choice to minimize the hip. Clients with that body type have preferred no vents. First time to ever hear a differing opinion on that one.

Whew! For a second there, I thought we were going to have to cut vents into my DJ. Even though I don't have large hips (right, Despos?) I'm happy that we went with the ventless option.

 

[77Pat]

Don't know if this is the right place, but just bought my first tuxedo, so figured I would ask.
Just bought a tuxedo from Spier & Mackay
Tuxedo shirt from Ledbury
Will most likely buy the Jos.A.Bank Silver & Mother-of-Pearl Stud set

Thinking maybe the cummerbund and bowtie from J.Crew during their next 40% off sale (also considering J.Press, open to other recommendations)

Any opinion about shoes? I have Allen Edmonds Park Ave, but was looking at:
To Boot New York Velvet Loafer
Allen Edmonds Ambrosia Italian Slip On - Feel like these look too much like a regular loafer
As long as they ship to US:
Hawes & Curtis Patent Lace Up
Charles Tyrwhitt
Bowhill & Elliott
Broadland

These would most likely be for 3-4 events a year (maybe more later), mostly for opera, maybe philharmonic, and other various parties similar to https://www.instagram.com/greatgatsbyparty/?hl=en

 

[Zerase]

If it is the tuxedo from S&M that they have been complaining about in the S&M-thread, I would think twice before keeping it The factory made the trousers with belt loops instead of side adjusters which is just wrong for black tie.

 

[norMD]

If it is the tuxedo from S&M that they have been complaining about in the S&M-thread, I would think twice before keeping it The factory made the trousers with belt loops instead of side adjusters which is just wrong for black tie.

Belt loops are replaced by side adjusters before shipping.

 

[77Pat]

If it is the tuxedo from S&M that they have been complaining about in the S&M-thread, I would think twice before keeping it The factory made the trousers with belt loops instead of side adjusters which is just wrong for black tie.

I have already received. They are correct, with side adjusters.

 

[Andy57]

Don't know if this is the right place, but just bought my first tuxedo, so figured I would ask.
[...]

Any opinion about shoes? I have Allen Edmonds Park Ave, but was looking at:
To Boot New York Velvet Loafer
Allen Edmonds Ambrosia Italian Slip On - Feel like these look too much like a regular loafer
As long as they ship to US:
Hawes & Curtis Patent Lace Up
Charles Tyrwhitt
Bowhill & Elliott
Broadland

These would most likely be for 3-4 events a year (maybe more later), mostly for opera, maybe philharmonic, and other various parties similar to https://www.instagram.com/greatgatsbyparty/?hl=en

This is the right place to ask.

Hawes & Curtis' shoe looks okay. New & Lingwood also have a patent oxford. If you're in the US, though, Brooks Brothers offer a good patent shoe (that is also made in the UK). I don't know anything about the other brands you reference.

 

[am55]

The Honourable Member for the 18th Century wearing a DB that fits for a change:

 

[ababac]

a question: which do you think would look best for a doupion cummerbund - the rough weft thread running vertically or horizontally?

i think running diagonally would be nicest, but this may be impractical for what i have in mind.

 

[perfectstitch]

Hello! I have a couple Black Tie and Black Tie Optional weddings coming up so I want to finally buy a tuxedo.

I am 5'11" and 170lbs with a narrow waist (sort of a "V" shape) and a long torso (most of my weight is in my butt and legs)

I was debating peak vs shawl lapels but my partner said she really likes the midnight blue shawl tux. I'm open to being convinced otherwise but I to lean that way as well, though also really like the classic black peak lapel tux. Want something that will last several years from a 'timeless style' perspective e.g. don't want notch lapels (for a number of reasons)

I'm planning to get it made by PeterLee Baron in Hong Kong who last took my measurements when I was there in 2015. I live in Manhattan and I really like the suit he made me so was going to go with him, but if folks think it is a much better idea to go with someone in NYC and have a recommendation I am open to it. He is quoting me about $830 USD for a Tux (assume it is half canvas), shirt, and cummerbund and that is sort of the ballpark of what I'm looking to spend, versus several thousand. I posed this question in a separate thread and folks said it wasn't the best idea to have PeterLee make it if I couldn't go back for a fitting and I agree it's definitely not ideal, I'm just not sure what the better alternatives are. I checked out something like Indochino and it seemed pretty horrible.
Here were the instructions I sent Peter so far before our go/no go decision:

Lapel: Shawl
Color: Midnight Blue
Pockets: Jetted
Belt Loops: No belt loops- think maybe side fasteners or just suspenders/brackets
Trousers: Single braid on outside to match the lapel facings, no pleats
Cummerbund: Yes
Tuxedo Shirt: Yes please - not sure what the options are though?


My questions for the FAR more knowledgeable and experienced community are:

1. Shawl vs Peak for my body type?
2. Cummerbund vs Evening Waistcoat (if the latter, shawl vs peak lapels) ? Seems like Cummerbund better option for Shawl Lapel and also due to lack of in person fitting.
3. Half Canvas vs Full Canvas?
4. Shawl lapel style type: Beckham vs Bond (see pictures) or something else entirely?
5. Button location: Am thinking 1 button but not sure how high or low (see Beckham vs Bond) ?
6. Tuxedo Shirt and Collar: any advice welcome here
7. Any thing else I should know would be most welcome!

Thank you!

Jake

 

[classicalthunde]

Hello! I have a couple Black Tie and Black Tie Optional weddings coming up so I want to finally buy a tuxedo.

I am 5'11" and 170lbs with a narrow waist (sort of a "V" shape) and a long torso (most of my weight is in my butt and legs)

I was debating peak vs shawl lapels but my partner said she really likes the midnight blue shawl tux. I'm open to being convinced otherwise but I to lean that way as well, though also really like the classic black peak lapel tux. Want something that will last several years from a 'timeless style' perspective e.g. don't want notch lapels (for a number of reasons)

I'm planning to get it made by PeterLee Baron in Hong Kong who last took my measurements when I was there in 2015. I live in Manhattan and I really like the suit he made me so was going to go with him, but if folks think it is a much better idea to go with someone in NYC and have a recommendation I am open to it. He is quoting me about $830 USD for a Tux (assume it is half canvas), shirt, and cummerbund and that is sort of the ballpark of what I'm looking to spend, versus several thousand. I posed this question in a separate thread and folks said it wasn't the best idea to have PeterLee make it if I couldn't go back for a fitting and I agree it's definitely not ideal, I'm just not sure what the better alternatives are. I checked out something like Indochino and it seemed pretty horrible.
Here were the instructions I sent Peter so far before our go/no go decision:

Lapel: Shawl
Color: Midnight Blue
Pockets: Jetted
Belt Loops: No belt loops- think maybe side fasteners or just suspenders/brackets
Trousers: Single braid on outside to match the lapel facings, no pleats
Cummerbund: Yes
Tuxedo Shirt: Yes please - not sure what the options are though?


My questions for the FAR more knowledgeable and experienced community are:

1. Shawl vs Peak for my body type?
2. Cummerbund vs Evening Waistcoat (if the latter, shawl vs peak lapels) ? Seems like Cummerbund better option for Shawl Lapel and also due to lack of in person fitting.
3. Half Canvas vs Full Canvas?
4. Shawl lapel style type: Beckham vs Bond (see pictures) or something else entirely?
5. Button location: Am thinking 1 button but not sure how high or low (see Beckham vs Bond) ?
6. Tuxedo Shirt and Collar: any advice welcome here
7. Any thing else I should know would be most welcome!

Thank you!

Jake

There's a lot to unpack there - I love the midnight blue/shawl look, but a black tux is slightly more "standard" in the sense its more likely that a wedding party that requires a black tux as opposed to a midnight blue tux. If you know that you're weddings don't care either way, i say go for the midnight blue and get something relatively unique.

If your in NYC I'd recommend you look at Kent Wang and MyTailor/Hemrajani Bros as well. I know that @Andy57 does most of his black tie with Hemrajani bros and they're not too far north of your price point

with regard to your questions specifically:
1. I think a shawl on a "V" type body would be better, it would have more balance (large peaks would emphasize your upper torso...maybe make you look top heavy or broader than you are? i'm not an expert in this area)
2. i always prefer a cummerbund with a a shawl lapel tuxedo, i think peak can go either way
3. i would suggest a full canvas definitely, if you are going to get a timeless garment for a the long haul, might as well make sure it drapes well and has the structure to go the distance
4. I prefer a slightly beveled/curved/bellied lapel like beckham, @Andy57 has a few dinner jackets with some shawl lapels with some great character. personally i think this Ansel Elgort picture has a wonderful lapel shape and is what i'll be shooting for in my next dinner jacket
5. definitely 1 button on all tuxedos, I think @Despos noted earlier in this thread that a proper/well done shawl lapel tuxedos need to have a low buttoning stance and be close to the pockets
6. I prefer a simpleness of a pique/marcella front shirt with a standard turn-down collar, i think you can get away with a wing tip of your doing a black peak tux with vest, but otherwise i think the wing tip stands too formal for the more relaxed shawl style. MyTailor/Hemrejani bros can make you a shirt as well
7. Kent Wang has some great black tie accessories (suspenders, bow ties, cummberbunds, studs, cufflinks), Budds in London has some great ones too but they are a bit more expense. Don't forget about footwear...

 

[Concordia]

Black covers everything. Make that your first.

Shawl can be a problem if done badly. You need to know that your tailor shares your vision. The one on the left is much preferable-- especially if lapels a hair slimmer, and with softer shoulders. More of a 50s look. [The Bond thing is an abortion.] But unless you are willing to take a risk, go for peak.

If peak lapel, get a low-cut waistcoat with 3 buttons. It will be almost invisible when the jacket is buttoned.

Pleats are a great idea. Obviously no belt loops for trousers. Single braid for black tie, double for white.

 

[perfectstitch]

Awesome, thank you @classicalthunde and @Concordia ! I'll ask PeterLee if he can send me some examples of his work for a shawl lapel tuxedo so ensure it won't be done badly, but so far I have liked his work on the suit he made me.

The weddings are Black Tie and Black Tie Optional, and I'm not in the wedding party, so I don't think I need to play it super safe and can take a risk by going with the midnight blue shawl lapel.

Interesting that you suggest pleats - I generally hate them, so automatically assumed 'no pleats' but will take a look at them.

Also, I called My Tailor/Hemrajani Bros it was a fair bit more expensive than PeterLee but might be worth it. Will email Kent Wang as it seems he has a decent reputation on here (just not sure for tuxes?).

 

[classicalthunde]

Awesome, thank you @classicalthunde and @Concordia ! I'll ask PeterLee if he can send me some examples of his work for a shawl lapel tuxedo so ensure it won't be done badly, but so far I have liked his work on the suit he made me.

The weddings are Black Tie and Black Tie Optional, and I'm not in the wedding party, so I don't think I need to play it super safe and can take a risk by going with the midnight blue shawl lapel.

Interesting that you suggest pleats - I generally hate them, so automatically assumed 'no pleats' but will take a look at them.

Also, I called My Tailor/Hemrajani Bros it was a fair bit more expensive than PeterLee but might be worth it. Will email Kent Wang as it seems he has a decent reputation on here (just not sure for tuxes?).

yea, i was probably thinking of a suit pricing with Hemrejani and not tuxedo, i can tell you that my KW Tux was about $1100 and full canvas

 

[Andy57]

a question: which do you think would look best for a doupion cummerbund - the rough weft thread running vertically or horizontally?

i think running diagonally would be nicest, but this may be impractical for what i have in mind.

I think a diagonal cut would be best, too.

 

[The Chai]

I think a diagonal cut would be best, too.

+1