The State of Black Tie: Your Observations

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by mafoofan, Nov 22, 2011.

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  1. JLibourel

    JLibourel Senior member

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    You might think that such an event would have been a white-tie affair, but evidently not. The trend to casual has even reached the high levels of royalty.

    Two of my Dutch cousins were friends with Princess Marijke/Christina when she was young. There were a lot of cruel rumors back then that the princess was retarded. These were quite false. She was visually impaired, but she was (and presumably still is) quite intelligent and witty.
     


  2. Quarks

    Quarks Senior member

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    Re: Mr. Porter's recommendation

    The thin lapels, small shirt collars, and skinny ties are appalling. I never understood why they exist in the first place.
    The whole combination looks so anaemic and anorexic. I cringe whenever someone sports them and think they are so 'in' fashion.
     


  3. Butler

    Butler Senior member

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    These pictures are from the dinner the night before which quite correctly was a dinner jacket affair (specifing long dress for the women).

    On the day of the main event an amazing large majority was dressed correctly in formal day wear; Morning Coat. :bigstar:
     


  4. culverwood

    culverwood Senior member

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    I do not think it is a trend to casual but a new form of formal. White tie has become so rare and almost archaic that referring to black tie as semi-formal any more is living in the past. Just my point of view which many I know will not agree with.
     


  5. marcodalondra

    marcodalondra Senior member

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  6. JLibourel

    JLibourel Senior member

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    I see that His Majesty King Willem-Alexander is wearing white tie for his inauguration ceremony. (I gather it is not called "coronation" in Holland.) I further note that his vest (waistcoat) is visible beneath his lapels. I can recall President Bush getting some flak from the i-Gentry for that gaffe a few years back.

    Interestingly, Hitler wore full white-tie attire for the ill-starred Munich Beer Hall Putsch of 1923. I don't know whether his vest also extended beneath his lapels. If not, it is a sad commentary on the decline of civilization over the the past 90 years that a vulgar and vicious demagogue could rock white tie better (as he attempted to pull off a revolution, no less) than a POTUS or a king of a respected and popular dynasty.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2013


  7. marcodalondra

    marcodalondra Senior member

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    there are other pictures of King Willem where is posing alone with a corridor behind him, and the from quartes of his evening tails cover all white waistcoat. My theory is that the white, backless, marcella waistcoat may tend to ride down the front if not properly secured, hence some time it looks ok and other doesn't
     


  8. dopey

    dopey Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    I am not a historian, but my recollection is that this was, at one time, a dictate of fashion, rather than correctness but people fixated on a particular fashion becoming correct. In other words, the mere fact that the waistcoat points show below the coat points does not make the rig badly fitting. At worst, it would be anachronistic or archaic.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2013


  9. JLibourel

    JLibourel Senior member

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    I am mostly being guided by Flusser here. Since it is a virtual certainty that I will never have occasion to wear a white tie ensemble, it is of merely academic interest to me. Curiously, I did own a white tie rig for some years, something I inherited from a wealthy relative, along with a morning coat and related gear. I never bothered to have either outfit tailored to fit me, and they eventually fell victim to the moths.
     


  10. musicmax

    musicmax Senior member

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    Astonishingly, it is the left picture that is the original.

    [​IMG]
     


  11. sugarbutch

    sugarbutch Bearded Prick Dubiously Honored

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    Well, you can't really expect blacktieguide.com to be authoritative on white tie, can you? :)
     


  12. Van Veen

    Van Veen Senior member

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    The general problem with this is that fashionable women generally think high rise/pleated pants and suspenders = Clint Eastwood old man look. They want an Abercrombie model (quasi-NSFW) silhouette even when the suit is on. Hence the fad of low-rise, flat-front suit pants. They can't see the forest for the trees and understand that suit pants should be designed to look good with the jacket on.

    Compare/contrast:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Low rise pants, skinny lapels, short jackets, etc. are just a fad like the high buttoning, 3+ button jackets of the 1990s, and the low, slouchy jackets of 1980s. (Apologies for the tangent.)
     


  13. ZirconiumZephyr

    ZirconiumZephyr Well-Known Member

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    In the process of having a MTM dinner jacket made from Kent Wang. Am waiting to receive the trial suit atm but very excited to pick some details.

    I'm currently thinking:

    -Shawl lapel
    -1 button
    -Midnight blue fabric
    -Black satin lapels
    -Flat front pants with satin stripe

    Really keen to get a nice black tie outfit. I love the history of all the little things and how they have gradually merged over time. I do particularly love the smoking jacket influence with the shawl lapel and the use of black tie as an almost everyday form of eveningwear.
     


  14. Bounder

    Bounder Senior member

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    [​IMG]

    Cross posted in Creepy Sartorial Images.

    And yes, there are matching pants.
     


  15. Master Squirrel

    Master Squirrel Senior member

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    Burn it with fire....


    But it does not burn!
     


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