The State of Black Tie: Your Observations

[upr_crust]

Budd. Although they are in London, you can order online, I'm quite sure. I'm not sure if Turnbull & Asser still has a location in NYC, but, if they do, that is another possibility.

But, my advice would be to forget about a wing collar, especially if comfort is something you value.

When last I walked across East 57th St. (between Madison and Park), Turnbull's store was still there.

 

[hpreston]

Random observation, watching the SNL 50th red carpet. Willie Geist is host and doing interviews. In close up, he looks fine, midnight SB shawl tux (lapels could be a little wider, he’s a big dude, but that’s nitpicking), what looks to be a self tied bow tie, turn down collar, white pocket square, nothing really to complain about……

Until they pan back! And it’s obvious he’s wearing mismatched black trousers with his midnight jacket! Gah! So close Willie, so close.

 

[hpreston]

One more

Just kidding two more.

Steve Martin. Mostly good, but jacket too short, two button jacket, and both buttons buttoned.

John Mulaney, perfect. Peak lapel, SB black tux. Proper length. All details correct. Nice job John.

 

[kylepw]

 

[The Dirty Pigeon]

One more

Just kidding two more.

Steve Martin. Mostly good, but jacket too short, two button jacket, and both buttons buttoned.

John Mulaney, perfect. Peak lapel, SB black tux. Proper length. All details correct. Nice job John.

Mulaney did look great. I went through a big slideshow of red carpet snapshots and there were a few black tie standouts. It was surprising to see so many men wearing a tuxedo with a black long tie instead of a bow-tie. I wonder if Jason Momoa's was Henry Poole & Co since he did some promotions with them a couple of years back.

 

[classicalthunde]

One more

Just kidding two more.

Steve Martin. Mostly good, but jacket too short, two button jacket, and both buttons buttoned.

John Mulaney, perfect. Peak lapel, SB black tux. Proper length. All details correct. Nice job John.

Some others that looked good:

• Jason Momoa in SB peak - If I recall correctly he uses Henry Poole
• Colin Jost in a nice shawl - I believe he uses Ralph Fitzpatrick
• Ryan Reynolds looked good in a (self faced?) midnight shawl

 

[Nick Charles]

I'm in the process of putting together a tuxedo rig, and I have a question about shirts. People here seem to feel very strongly that wing collar must be detachable only, but where does one actually go about getting a collar-less dress shirt and an attachable collar in this day and age? Is custom the only real option here?

I'm thinking about getting two shirts, one turn-down and one wing (as I really do like the look of wing shirts), but if I'm going to do it I'd generally prefer to do it right. I'm in NYC if that helps.

 

[Nick Charles]

Yes, the Turnbull and Asser townhouse is still on 57th and Park. They have have all styles of tuxedo shirts available in RTW, MTM, and bespoke. Definitely go and see what they have as its good to see the best even if you end up going somewhere with a lower price point. I have several of their tuxedo shirts, including a MTM wingtip collar. It is not detachable, but beautifully made. I have worn it to three seperate events without problem. This is my personal experience. Other members of this thread have written that if the collar's not detachable, then it's not practical. Maybe I haven't worn mine enough, but it's held up nicely so far. Ascot Chang also makes a detachable collar.

 

[Lensmaster]

Semi formal might have meant Black Tie 100 years ago, but it certainly doesn’t mean that any more

Formal wear (white tie) isn't worn a lot now but it still exists. There are several white tie balls in Austria every year. Here in the US I still hear of occasional ceremonial or traditional events that are white tie. So semi-formal for black tie still fits. Of course that still doesn't answer the question of what to call a less than strict semi-formal dress code. Creative black tie still seems to be the best description anyone's come up with.

 

[The Chai]

Formal wear (white tie) isn't worn a lot now but it still exists. There are several white tie balls in Austria every year. Here in the US I still hear of occasional ceremonial or traditional events that are white tie. So semi-formal for black tie still fits. Of course that still doesn't answer the question of what to call a less than strict semi-formal dress code. Creative black tie still seems to be the best description anyone's come up with.

I went as a well dressed dickhead for Halloween - which is white tie with a "pee pee" head mask

 

[Andy57]

Valentine's Day dinner. I selected my midnight blue dinner jacket to compliment my wife's dress. Blue satin tie and cummerbund to co-ordinate with the satin midnight blue facings.

 

[Cause Moe]

Formal wear (white tie) isn't worn a lot now but it still exists. There are several white tie balls in Austria every year. Here in the US I still hear of occasional ceremonial or traditional events that are white tie. So semi-formal for black tie still fits. Of course that still doesn't answer the question of what to call a less than strict semi-formal dress code. Creative black tie still seems to be the best description anyone's come up with.

The existence of White Tie doesn't mean that Black Tie is therefore semi-formal. "Formal" doesn't have to be reserved for only one single dress code; the most formal code only. Classic Black Tie, with a classic black Tuxedo jacket and matching trousers, with matching black silk facings and trouser stripes, worn with a white dress shirt, black waist covering, and a black bow-tie, is clearly formal by any practical 21st-century definition.

The maroon velvet jacket, the tartan trousers, and such, might appropriately be called semi-formal, but the classic black-and-white soup and fish is formal wear; even if there is a rare but more lofty style that's even more formal.

 

[DapperDan15]

The existence of White Tie doesn't mean that Black Tie is therefore semi-formal. "Formal" doesn't have to be reserved for only one single dress code; the most formal code only. Classic Black Tie, with a classic black Tuxedo jacket and matching trousers, with matching black silk facings and trouser stripes, worn with a white dress shirt, black waist covering, and a black bow-tie, is clearly formal by any practical 21st-century definition.

The maroon velvet jacket, the tartan trousers, and such, might appropriately be called semi-formal, but the classic black-and-white soup and fish is formal wear; even if there is a rare but more lofty style that's even more formal.

Actually, white tie is only evening dress. The highest formal dress code for men still in use is Court Dress, which is truly rare.

This does bring up the interesting conversation of whether such dress codes are 'descriptive' or 'prescriptive' in type. Traditionally, it was the upper class that dictated what was appropriate to the masses. Today, it is an open question for many.

 

[classless]

Imagine the lamenting of the traditionalists as tuxedos replaced tailcoats.

 

[DapperDan15]

Imagine the lamenting of the traditionalists as tuxedos replaced tailcoats.

The only thing I lament is the detached collar.