The State of Black Tie: Your Observations

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by mafoofan, Nov 22, 2011.

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  1. TimelesStyle

    TimelesStyle Senior member

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    All I could think when I saw it was that someone did with his tuxedo what Will Smith did with his school uniform in "The Fresh Prince of Bel Air".
     


  2. recondite

    recondite Senior member

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    Exactly.

    White is and was for summer resort wear, when the heat could be nearly unbearable. So, a waistcoat would be abandoned for the much cooler cummerbund. And even the cummerbund would be left home, if the dinner jacket was a double breasted one which would remained buttoned the entire evening including when seated.

    The other wrong detail, is the wing collar, being a remnant of white tie rig, which would more than likely be paired with a white pique waistcoat and attached to a boiled stiff fronted shirt with heavily starched bib, even if wearing a black tie and dinner jacket. My impression, that could be wrong, was that the turndown collar was the one most associated with a black waistcoat and dinner jacket. This shirt was a much softer shirt with double cuffs compared to the stiff fronted bibs and single linked cuffs on boiled shirts with wing collars since it was an informal occasion where one was dressing for primarily for comfort.

    Winged collars with tuxedos and dinner jackets were very popular during the 80's in the US for some reason, but they would be on a shirt with soft front and double cuffs. This was a style and fashion choice, not one for comfort, since when properly starched winged collars are quite stiff.

    The only real advantage of wearing a wing collar with dinner jacket, is that it offers positive confirmation to all that you are not wearing a clip-on tie. I used to wear one occasionally for that vain reason, but it was properly starched, very stiff and I attached it to a soft double cuff shirt with detachable collar.

    Any hoo, just my perspective and not absolute historical fact.
     


  3. sugarbutch

    sugarbutch Bearded Prick Dubiously Honored

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    You ain't whistlin' Dixie...
     


  4. Digmenow

    Digmenow Senior member

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    "Oh I never do that, Mr. Bunker." ~Lionel Jefferson
     


  5. harboldlr

    harboldlr New Member

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    I wear my tux as I would rather be among the better dressed men at an event.
     


  6. dopey

    dopey Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Data point.

    I have a wedding tomorrow that begins at 4:00. The invitation didn't specify a dress code. My wife checked with a relative of the bride who told us that the wedding party will be in black tie but everyone else should come in cocktail attire. It was clear that they wanted no one else in BT. I am glad we checked.
     


  7. bigtimebuck4

    bigtimebuck4 Senior member

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    Thanks for all of the help guys!
     


  8. Veremund

    Veremund Senior member

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    Am I the only one to find that a bit tacky and / or strange ? "We'll be wearing black tie but no one else is ALLOWED to". Don't they realise that a guest would get suited in black tie to show respect and appreciation for the occasion and the efforts of the hosts? Is it just me, or does this smack of insecurity on the part of the hosts? I mean, I wouldn't show up in white tie to a black tie do, but black tie being off limits at a black tie do doesn't seem right.


     


  9. El Argentino

    El Argentino Senior member

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    More about setting the wedding party apart from guests. Similar to bogus thought that the groom has to be different from the rest of the men in the party too, etc.

    But it's the bride (and groom's) day, so what they say should go.
     


  10. cptjeff

    cptjeff Senior member

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    What? No, those are penny loafers. He was known for them. The type he's wearing have a structured toe that makes them different from the moccasin constructed example that's the iconic form of the shoe, but they are absolutely penny loafers. Look at the Allen Edmonds Westchester for something comparable. Not a very useful shoe, (IMO, structured toes don't belong on a loafer ever), especially in black, but there it is.
     


  11. recondite

    recondite Senior member

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    Exactly. For over a decade, I wore black tassel loafers with full dinner suit including waistcoat. That was my affectation and only deviation from what would be expected., other than I really find it hard to get excited about metal studs in my formal shirts, preferring mother of pearl in winter and a clean fly front shirt in summer.

    Black tie is in-formal wear anyway with a fair amount of deviation from the form being acceptable.

    I wouldn't get hung on the shoes too much, when some bozo or five are going to wear a bright red bowtie and clavicle high vest to spice things up, with others wearing something less than a well fitted suit.
     


  12. dopey

    dopey Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    I don't really care. It is just clothes, and it isn't like I have a personal stake in what I wear to someone else's wedding. They can set whatever reasonable rules they want. If I have a complaint, it is only that the invitation didn't specify, leaving some confusion.
     


  13. Veremund

    Veremund Senior member

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    No personal stake? You dress to represent yourself. It doesn't get much more personal than that.
     


  14. DJosef

    DJosef Senior member

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    Well not taking offense is one thing, and the whole thing being in principle totally classless is another. It's like... well... erm... Not exactly insulting, just classless and tactless. A breach of diplomatic conduct.
     


  15. Big Texas

    Big Texas Senior member

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    Yes, and to overdress -- especially when asked not to -- is to represent oneself poorly.

    Someone else's wedding isn't your personal time to shine. You should respect the wishes of the bride and groom. Dressing out of place for the chosen level of formality is almost as bad as underdressing.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2013


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