The State of Black Tie: Your Observations

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by mafoofan, Nov 22, 2011.

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  1. mafoofan

    mafoofan THE FOO Dubiously Honored

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    I think you're still missing my point. When a thing is viewed predominantly as old-fashioned, it tends to be disfavored by younger people. That doesn't mean all classic or old things are predominantly associated with being old-fashioned. When an old-fashioned thing suddenly becomes acceptable, popular, or fashionable, people tend to stop calling it old-fashioned.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2011


  2. Patrick R

    Patrick R Senior member

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    Undoubtably. And because at that point in time, it is no longer old-fashioned, rather it is acceptable, popular, or fashionable. :)
     


  3. bourbonbasted

    bourbonbasted Cyber Eliitist

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    Yes but when all these things have been prominent elements of style in the South and on the East Coast for generations does that mean they can never be viewed as old fashioned by the majority? It seems your definition of old fashioned is extremely subjective and varies from person to person, group to group, culture to culture.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2011


  4. unbelragazzo

    unbelragazzo Jewfro Dubiously Honored

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    Yea I just think you're wrong about this. There's a whole "Trad" resurgence now. If what you're saying is true, it should be the same stuff just relabeled as "Mod". It's being explicitly labeled as traditional, old school. RL does the same thing - he makes no bones about his look being borrowed from yesteryear and "old-fashioned". Association with earlier generations does not turn off younger customers these days.
     


  5. F. Corbera

    F. Corbera Senior member

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    Last edited: Nov 23, 2011


  6. mjphillips

    mjphillips Senior member

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    You would not feel out of place if you attended the Metropolitan Opera in black tie on a Friday or Saturday night. Would guess no more than 20% are in black tie, but people are very dressed up in general, and in party clothes too - velvet jackets, bowties, ascots, etc.

    As as Southerner I might be biased, but amongst the well-to-do wedding are almost always black tie (exception: outdoor weddings in warmer months). If you're the type to grow up going to cotillions, country club events, fraternity formals, etc, you would almost certainly own a tuxedo by age 20. Now it wouldn't likely be a very nice tuxedo (my friend calls it a 'fratcedo') and would probably have notch lapels, but you'd get used to the idea of wearing one and would probably upgrade to a proper one around age 25. Goes without saying that the bowtie would be self-tie and would wear a proper shirt with studs, cufflinks, etc.

    In my opinion, comfort with wearing a tuxedo is proportional to how often one wears it. If you've worn a tuxedo 3 times in your life you probably think it's stuffy or old-fashioned, but at a certain point you begin to enjoy and look forward to it.
     


  7. unbelragazzo

    unbelragazzo Jewfro Dubiously Honored

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    We're talking quite quite well-to-do then...I grew up in the South, my mom's family has lived here for generations, and we're not FU wealthy, but certainly upper-middle-class. I guess if I had gone to university in the south and/or been in a fraternity I would have had those formals, but I never went to cotillion or country club events (though my mother did when she was growing up). My point is not to get into a how-rich-am-I-vs-you pissing match, just to try and document 1) what fraction of Southern social life still operates this way 2) how this has changed compared to a generation ago. My impression from my own experience is 1) very little 2) quite a bit. From listening to my mom, it sounded like when she was growing up, all the children of professional families - sons and daughters of doctors, lawyers, bankers, etc., were growing up as you describe (my mom was growing up in the South in the 50's and early 60's, I grew up in a bigger and more liberal town in the late 80s and 90s).

    Also seemingly everyone in the South now gets married outdoors and in spring/summer. That's my experience anyway.
     


  8. hendrix

    hendrix Ill-proportioned

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    And this is why:


     


  9. mjphillips

    mjphillips Senior member

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    This is definitely true, outdoors weddings are much more popular now. Should also note that you still see white tie in the south, though this is rare and fading.
    Southerners typically know how to dress up for an event - which is why I was surprised that this was the case for Foo at a DC wedding.
     


  10. Master Squirrel

    Master Squirrel Senior member

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    I love to wear black tie. Sometimes I put it on (Yes I own more than one DJ) and my girlfriend puts on a nice dress with her mink stole and we go to the bar, load the jukebox with Depeche Mode and eat chicken wings. I think we even did it during SNOWMagedden last year. Then there was a draft party where I had three minutes to decide what to wear that was black and white... Ding! Black tie. My friends were a bit upset because they were faced with the same problem and would have thrown theirs on as well. In other words, I don't wait for an excuse... I make one. (and the only embarrassment I suffer is having women hand me phone numbers when my ladyfriend is away).
     


  11. unbelragazzo

    unbelragazzo Jewfro Dubiously Honored

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    Are you in DC? Which DC-ers would be ready to stage Occupy Nightlife events wearing tuxes? I stand by my statement that if a few people start doing it, it'll come back. Evening wear FTW.
     


  12. MikeDT

    MikeDT Senior member

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    Never had to wear black-tie myself. Isn't it really just for weddings, first night performances, VIP gala balls, things like the Oscars and 007 these days?
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2011


  13. Sonny58

    Sonny58 Senior member

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    We will be seeing La Boheme at the Metropolitan Opera on a Thursday night (not an opening night) and would like to dress appropriately but at the higher end of the scale. I am confused though given the varied thoughts above. :confused:
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2011


  14. MikeDT

    MikeDT Senior member

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    I'd go on the advice of the Met itself, maybe wear a suit, or sport jacket and trousers. After all you're there to enjoy the show, you're not going to be on TV or photographed by the press,.The performers won't be able to see you anyway, unless you have a front-row seat.

    I went to a couple of operas at Covent Garden, London a while back. I'm sure some people even had jeans and t-shirts on, didn't seem to be a problem.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2011


  15. mjphillips

    mjphillips Senior member

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    A sportcoat with trousers (would avoid jeans) or a nice suit should be fine. Don't be afraid to be a bit of dandy if you are inclined because it's hard to stick out there. Weekends are more formal than weekday performances.
     


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