The State of Black Tie: Your Observations

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by mafoofan, Nov 22, 2011.

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  1. OTCtailor

    OTCtailor Senior member

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    Flat front trousers shouldn't be high rise. Fullness and rise correspond. Pleated pants usually have a higher rise so that the fullness can be distributed effectively over prominent abdomen/thighs. You can't achieve this with flat fronts unless you build them with darts under the waist band. I do this when I remove pleats from pants for myself. I keep a small dart there so some fullness is maintained.
    RTW companies like Jos A Bank etc make flat front trousers with high rise to fit more people, but it's why you see droopy crotches because no one wears them that high. The alteration, by the way, is dropping the waistband. And you've got about an 1.25" before you start cutting off the pocket. The higher end RTW companies drop the rise on flat fronts because they know that the pants will inevitably end up at the hips like jeans, anyway.
     


  2. msulinski

    msulinski Senior member

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    I have the JAB signature tuxedo, and it was the only one that fits those criteria (except for the single pleat) in that or even double the price range. The Suit Supply suit is vented, though those can be closed up. Just make sure you don't pay "full" price for it. Right now it is $900, but give it a week or 2, and you can get it for just under $300.

    As for the pleat, you are going to be wearing the pants high up on your waist, so I agree with the other posters that the pleat is helpful. It also ends up being high enough that the jacket pretty much covers the entire thing.

    The biggest issue I have with the JAB tuxedo is that it is the fit. It is the classic/regular fit, so not exactly flattering on someone with even a remotely atheletic build (not sure if this pertains to you). I had a tailor take in the waist, and it came out well.
     


  3. msulinski

    msulinski Senior member

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    I just returned from a 7-night cruise that left out of NJ and went to the Bahamas and back. The cruise had 2 formal nights, one of which was New Year's Eve. I wore traditional black tie for that event. There were very few others who did this. Most wore a suit. I did see a few other tuxedos, but with odd-color bow ties and vests.

    For the second night, I wore a cream colored dinner jacket with the tuxedo pants, a black bow tie and burgundy pocket square. My understanding is that this is standard warm-weather/cruise black tie, if slightly less formal than the standard tuxedo. Unfortunately, that evening, the head waiters were wearing a very similar setup (shawl collar white dinner jackets, black trousers) except for a burgundy bow tie (still arguably correct black tie though). One of the waiters even joked with me by asking if I worked there, and told me to come in the back to help him. I was a bit annoyed that I went through the effort of doing correct black tie, only to find that the wait staff had done the same (if by accident). Typically staff are differentiated from guests by incorporating aspects of formal wear that are incorrect.
     


  4. Veremund

    Veremund Senior member

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    That's such a shame that most of your fellow guests didn't keep up with you, but it's not your fault, and it's not even the waiters' fault. In your situation, I would have joked to the waiter that it was nice that at least they were properly attired, as opposed to the ill-suited guests. :)

     


  5. Veremund

    Veremund Senior member

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    I've worn my dinner jacket 4 times so far this season (3 operas and New Year's), and this coming Saturday will be number 5. The lady and I will be hitting a black-tie masquerade ball/cocktail party. Now I get to add a Venetian Carnival / Eyes Wide Shut mask accessory to my inventory. I'll be wearing my dinner jacket and mask to all future costume parties. :D
     


  6. BackInTheJox

    BackInTheJox Senior member

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    Was wondering if someone could help me advise a friend of mine. Like me, he is getting married this upcoming summer and is planning a rather formal wedding in the evening (ceremony at 5pm, reception starts at 6:30 with cocktail hour and dinner starting at 7:30, for reference), and he apparently realizes I at least know a couple things about proper dress (although not compared to the average SF user). And like me, he's doing the black-tie deal (standard "correct" tuxedo with peak lapel/one button/no pocket flaps/no vents/etc), but asked my opinion about changing into a white/cream shawl collar dinner jacket after the ceremony for the reception. Apparently it's a thing for some brides to change into a second dress that's more amenable to dancing/partying (something slimmer/less bulky than a traditional wedding gown), and his thinking was that it might be neat to change things up for himself as well (although it would simply be for style rather than functionality, as you don't really gain anything comfort/dancing-wise going from a black DJ to a white one).

    I really don't know what the etiquette is on this kind of thing so I wasn't able to really help him. Should I tell him to go for it? Or would this seem very silly and try-hard. It's a June wedding, ceremony in a church, reception at a country club. Not taking place in NYC/Chicago/etc.

    Thanks guys.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2013


  7. sugarbutch

    sugarbutch Bearded Prick Dubiously Honored

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    Sure, why not?
     


  8. Kent Wang

    Kent Wang Affiliate Vendor Dubiously Honored Affiliate Vendor

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    Perhaps it would be better to wear a lounge suit for the ceremony since it's still daytime and then change into black tie afterwards.
     


  9. sugarbutch

    sugarbutch Bearded Prick Dubiously Honored

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    I think a 5 pm ceremony indoors clears the bar for black tie. Also, if he wears a lounge suit, it would require the men standing up with him to make the same wardrobe change. If he sticks to the suggested plan, they can wear black tie throughout.
     


  10. BackInTheJox

    BackInTheJox Senior member

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    I kinda like that idea, but it sounds like the general black tie theme is kinda set (and bridesmaids are, I think, wearing black dresses, although I could be mistaken). Also it would probably be a bit much to ask all the groomsmen to change as well, but I'll leave that to him/them.

    From what I've read on here/elsewhere, a ceremony somewhat close to 6pm that will be followed by an evening (6pm or later) reception can still be done with black tie with only a minor sense of shame/guilt for breaking the rules.
     


  11. BackInTheJox

    BackInTheJox Senior member

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    Yeah this was my thought exactly.

    Another issue (for him and for my wedding, actually) seems to be the bride wanting to be able to "differentiate" the groom from the rest of the groomsmen. His bride and mine both seem pretty level headed and certainly not one of those "make the groomsmen wear colorful ties/vests that match the bridesmaids outfit while the groom wears a silver four-in-hand and matching awful vest" types; however, they both (the two women, both of whom are good friends with each other) have discussed wanting us both to wear white bowties with our tuxedos for our respective weddings, which we both obviously (and successfully) lobbied against.

    For my wedding, I will probably just have a white boutonniere while the groomsmen will have pink . . . that may be the only major discerning features, and my fiancee is cool with that. His, on the other hand, would prefer a little more as far as "setting the groom apart from the groomsmen", and the white DJ at the reception (but black DJ just like the groomsmen during the ceremony) was his proposed solution, it seems.
     


  12. aravenel

    aravenel Senior member

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    I've never understood that. It's not like anyone is going to mistake one of the groomsmen for the groom. They all know who they are there to see married.
     


  13. BackInTheJox

    BackInTheJox Senior member

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    I totally agree. It's silly. I keep hearing things like "when a stranger looks at a picture of the entire wedding party, there should be no doubt about who is the groom since it's obvious who the bride is."

    How about it's the guy next to the bride? Also, I don't really care about what strangers think when looking at my wedding photos, I want to know how they got ahold of them in the first place.
     


  14. dopey

    dopey Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    A cream colored DJ is resort/tropics attire (fastidious types wouldn't even wear it in the summer-time in a normal city (i.e., not a resort type place)), so it would be kind of silly to change into one after the ceremony. In fact, it makes no sense other than as something to do.

    If he wants to change into something for fun, maybe he should get a pair of Belgian Loafer type "formal" slippers for the party part (Shipton and Heneage makes something suitable, too) and, to go all-out casual Black tie, he could get a velvet or silk smoking jacket. Those are both technically correct at club parties. The smoking jacket is a bit crazy and I am only mentioning it as a "correct" if silly possibility, but the slippers make sense and would actually be a nice change.
     


  15. TimelesStyle

    TimelesStyle Senior member

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    Why not a black U-vest for the groom and cummerbunds for the groomsmen? Or a DB DJ for groom and SB for groomsmen? Or SB PL DJ for groom, shawls for groomsmen? Finally, maybe shirt with studs for groom and covered plackets for groomsmen?

    There are many different possibilities which will all be correct but allow for a certain degree of differentiation.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2013


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