The State of Black Tie: Your Observations

[ababac]

i was going to wait until it was finished to show my cummerbund experiment, but i could use some suggestions.

i thought i'd try out the historic cummerbund that was rather excellently culturally misappropriated from the persians (by way of colonial british india), before it became the accessory it is today.

(so basically i bought i really long length of doupion silk, hemmed it and wrapped it around me five times.)

however, i'm stuck on how to finish the ends. i tapered them for now, but this was a mistake and looks awful. i suppose it wouldn't matter if i just shortened the ends and tucked them in, but i like the idea of having them dangle from underneath my jacket. (counterpoint - that may seem as if i'm trying to look like a pirate). tasselling the ends like a scarf feels weird and may look like i've just nicked some of my grandmother's soft furnishings.

i'm not trying to create some kind of historical costume by any means; i just thought it might be a little bit interesting (and would keep me warmer, as i do tend to run cold).

so, any ideas? anyone sitting on some good pictures of how these used to be made or worn? anyone care to berate me on my idiotic project? anyone come across someone else pretentious enough to have worn something like this before?

 

[Eli Curt]

i was going to wait until it was finished to show my cummerbund experiment, but i could use some suggestions.

i thought i'd try out the historic cummerbund that was rather excellently culturally misappropriated from the persians (by way of colonial british india), before it became the accessory it is today.

(so basically i bought i really long length of doupion silk, hemmed it and wrapped it around me five times.)

however, i'm stuck on how to finish the ends. i tapered them for now, but this was a mistake and looks awful. i suppose it wouldn't matter if i just shortened the ends and tucked them in, but i like the idea of having them dangle from underneath my jacket. (counterpoint - that may seem as if i'm trying to look like a pirate). tasselling the ends like a scarf feels weird and may look like i've just nicked some of my grandmother's soft furnishings.

i'm not trying to create some kind of historical costume by any means; i just thought it might be a little bit interesting (and would keep me warmer, as i do tend to run cold).

so, any ideas? anyone sitting on some good pictures of how these used to be made or worn? anyone care to berate me on my idiotic project? anyone come across someone else pretentious enough to have worn something like this before?



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I think you look fantastic without that cummerbund dangling the way it does. Strap on a scimitar and you may be better off.

 

[Andy57]

i picked up my new mtm dinner jacket this morning, and hastily threw on the rest so my lady could take a couple of pictures before i had to get myself back to work.

super 150s wool, woven on a silk loom with a design from the '80s. looks more '60s to me, which is why i like it.
also it feels lovely and light and smooth, which is a nice contrast to the rough barathea of my mohair trousers.


ignore the red bit dangling down my leg, i haven't quite finished constructing my cummerbund experiment yet.

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That looks pretty great. The texture is fascinating. Where did you source the cloth?

 

[Andy57]

i was going to wait until it was finished to show my cummerbund experiment, but i could use some suggestions.

i thought i'd try out the historic cummerbund that was rather excellently culturally misappropriated from the persians (by way of colonial british india), before it became the accessory it is today.

(so basically i bought i really long length of doupion silk, hemmed it and wrapped it around me five times.)

however, i'm stuck on how to finish the ends. i tapered them for now, but this was a mistake and looks awful. i suppose it wouldn't matter if i just shortened the ends and tucked them in, but i like the idea of having them dangle from underneath my jacket. (counterpoint - that may seem as if i'm trying to look like a pirate). tasselling the ends like a scarf feels weird and may look like i've just nicked some of my grandmother's soft furnishings.

i'm not trying to create some kind of historical costume by any means; i just thought it might be a little bit interesting (and would keep me warmer, as i do tend to run cold).

so, any ideas? anyone sitting on some good pictures of how these used to be made or worn? anyone care to berate me on my idiotic project? anyone come across someone else pretentious enough to have worn something like this before?



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I think having the tied off ends dangling is probably exactly how it ought to be. My guess is that the historical sash that you are trying to recreate looked like that. But you could email David Hober (of Sam Hober) and ask him, as David makes bespoke cummerbunds in this fashion.

 

[ababac]

I think you look fantastic without that cummerbund dangling the way it does. Strap on a scimitar and you may be better off.

very kind, thank you.
a scimitar? now there's an idea. could come in handy for opening the champagne.

That looks pretty great. The texture is fascinating. Where did you source the cloth?

i ordered swatches from seven or eight different mills/wholesalers i found online. the one i chose from whaleys bradford was the clear favourite due to the texture, level of sheen and... two-toneiness?

the largest piece was from a company that doesn't provide swatches, so i bought the smallest piece i could, for about a fiver. it is now a super cheap pocket square!

I think having the tied off ends dangling is probably exactly how it ought to be. My guess is that the historical sash that you are trying to recreate looked like that. But you could email David Hober (of Sam Hober) and ask him, as David makes bespoke cummerbunds in this fashion.

an excellent idea, thank you. i wasn't aware david made cummerbunds like this.

the bow tie i made from the silk is nothing close to david's standard, but i think it turned out pretty well.

 

[Andy57]

i ordered swatches from seven or eight different mills/wholesalers i found online. the one i chose from whaleys bradford was the clear favourite due to the texture, level of sheen and... two-toneiness?

Thank you and interesting. But I actually meant the cloth for the dinner jacket. The texture of the jacket is fascinating.

 

[ababac]

Thank you and interesting. But I actually meant the cloth for the dinner jacket. The texture of the jacket is fascinating.

apologies, i misread.
the cloth was supplied by bateman ogden (http://www.batemanogden.co.uk/). if you look on their website, the cloth is named sky. the cream isn't shown on there, but it is in black.

 

[benjamin831]

i was going to wait until it was finished to show my cummerbund experiment, but i could use some suggestions.

i thought i'd try out the historic cummerbund that was rather excellently culturally misappropriated from the persians (by way of colonial british india), before it became the accessory it is today.

(so basically i bought i really long length of doupion silk, hemmed it and wrapped it around me five times.)

however, i'm stuck on how to finish the ends. i tapered them for now, but this was a mistake and looks awful. i suppose it wouldn't matter if i just shortened the ends and tucked them in, but i like the idea of having them dangle from underneath my jacket. (counterpoint - that may seem as if i'm trying to look like a pirate). tasselling the ends like a scarf feels weird and may look like i've just nicked some of my grandmother's soft furnishings.

i'm not trying to create some kind of historical costume by any means; i just thought it might be a little bit interesting (and would keep me warmer, as i do tend to run cold).

so, any ideas? anyone sitting on some good pictures of how these used to be made or worn? anyone care to berate me on my idiotic project? anyone come across someone else pretentious enough to have worn something like this before?



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I've been thinking about this for a long time as well. The modern cummerbund is an abomination of the military waist sash it derived from. However, I run into the same problem as you and there's no way to elegantly to tie off the sash.

 

[benjamin831]

What are some of your thought on a summer tuxedo **** made of linen? Unfortunately voile is unavailable.

 

[The Chai]

What are some of your thought on a summer tuxedo **** made of linen? Unfortunately voile is unavailable.

I have many of my dinner shirts made in linen. I have also read somewhere that the first dinner shirts were made of heavy linen

 

[Andy57]

What are some of your thought on a summer tuxedo **** made of linen? Unfortunately voile is unavailable.

Linen is fine. But why do you say voile is unavailable? I have two formal shirts made from voile, one very recently.

 

[benjamin831]

Linen is fine. But why do you say voile is unavailable? I have two formal shirts made from voile, one very recently.

Oh I meant my tailor doesn't carry voile

 

[benjamin831]

Do you guys think this fabric is too dark and coarse for a warm weather shawl lapel DB dinner jacket? Or should I opt for a more classic cream linen?

 

[ababac]

Do you guys think this fabric is too dark and coarse for a warm weather shawl lapel DB dinner jacket? Or should I opt for a more classic cream linen?

i like it. it's almost like hessian. i don't think it's too dark, it's not burma shade.

 

[perfectstitch]

yea, i was probably thinking of a suit pricing with Hemrejani and not tuxedo, i can tell you that my KW Tux was about $1100 and full canvas

Thanks to everyone's help so far!

Tried to work with Kent Wang (via Aaron in NYC) and it was a great experience, but unfortunately we couldn't make the timing and logistics work, and they also couldn't accommodate the specific shawl lapel I was looking for (the Beckham Style which is more squared off versus the more traditionally "pointed" version). Additionally, Aaaron mentioned I am a bit of a U shape rather than pronounced V shape, so a peak lapel would be good.

So given that, went with my original tailor in Hong Kong and went with your suggestions to get a black peak lapel. Went with a Vitale Barberis Canonico Mohair and Wool blend.

Anyway, here are some follow up questions I was curious about:

Vents - no vents or side vents? I have a larger rear end (not side to side but front to back)
Shirt - folks had mentioned a turndown collar but given I went with a peak lapel, would you recommend a turndown collar or wing collar? Also, what options are there besides Marcella and what would you recommend?
Lining - what lining would you recommend? I was thinking black with some slight red trimming
Lapel Width - Was thinking 10cm as it would look more formal but not sure if that is too wide
Vest/Cummerbund - Any tips here in terms of Vest or Cummerbund, and details around the Vest if that is the best route would be welcome!