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The State of Black Tie: Your Observations

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by mafoofan, Nov 22, 2011.

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  1. BackInTheJox

    BackInTheJox Senior member

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    Yeah this was my thought exactly.

    Another issue (for him and for my wedding, actually) seems to be the bride wanting to be able to "differentiate" the groom from the rest of the groomsmen. His bride and mine both seem pretty level headed and certainly not one of those "make the groomsmen wear colorful ties/vests that match the bridesmaids outfit while the groom wears a silver four-in-hand and matching awful vest" types; however, they both (the two women, both of whom are good friends with each other) have discussed wanting us both to wear white bowties with our tuxedos for our respective weddings, which we both obviously (and successfully) lobbied against.

    For my wedding, I will probably just have a white boutonniere while the groomsmen will have pink . . . that may be the only major discerning features, and my fiancee is cool with that. His, on the other hand, would prefer a little more as far as "setting the groom apart from the groomsmen", and the white DJ at the reception (but black DJ just like the groomsmen during the ceremony) was his proposed solution, it seems.
     
  2. aravenel

    aravenel Senior member

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    I've never understood that. It's not like anyone is going to mistake one of the groomsmen for the groom. They all know who they are there to see married.
     
  3. BackInTheJox

    BackInTheJox Senior member

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    I totally agree. It's silly. I keep hearing things like "when a stranger looks at a picture of the entire wedding party, there should be no doubt about who is the groom since it's obvious who the bride is."

    How about it's the guy next to the bride? Also, I don't really care about what strangers think when looking at my wedding photos, I want to know how they got ahold of them in the first place.
     
  4. dopey

    dopey Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    A cream colored DJ is resort/tropics attire (fastidious types wouldn't even wear it in the summer-time in a normal city (i.e., not a resort type place)), so it would be kind of silly to change into one after the ceremony. In fact, it makes no sense other than as something to do.

    If he wants to change into something for fun, maybe he should get a pair of Belgian Loafer type "formal" slippers for the party part (Shipton and Heneage makes something suitable, too) and, to go all-out casual Black tie, he could get a velvet or silk smoking jacket. Those are both technically correct at club parties. The smoking jacket is a bit crazy and I am only mentioning it as a "correct" if silly possibility, but the slippers make sense and would actually be a nice change.
     
  5. TimelesStyle

    TimelesStyle Senior member

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    Why not a black U-vest for the groom and cummerbunds for the groomsmen? Or a DB DJ for groom and SB for groomsmen? Or SB PL DJ for groom, shawls for groomsmen? Finally, maybe shirt with studs for groom and covered plackets for groomsmen?

    There are many different possibilities which will all be correct but allow for a certain degree of differentiation.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2013
  6. TimelesStyle

    TimelesStyle Senior member

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    I'm not sure why the staff getting black tie right annoys you. Back when people actually followed the rules for formal dress by and large so too would the staff (albeit sometimes with the shorter coats specifically designed for food service).

    Oh, and the burgundy tie, according to Black Tie Guide, is specifically only correct when paired with a burgundy cummerbund and used with a white/off-white DJ so either they really knew what they were doing or just got really lucky that the chosen tie was acceptable only with the chosen jacket and would have been considered incorrect with a black DJ.
     
  7. msulinski

    msulinski Senior member

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    My hesitation with the white jacket would be that it is something typically used in tropical, warm-weather environments. It is also less formal than the matching dinner jacket. So while the groom is differentiated from the groomsmen, he ends up being the least formal of the bunch. My recommendation would be to just wear the black matching dinner jacket for the entire evening.

    The suggestion that someone else made about the vest (not one of those high ones) for the groom and cummerbunds for the groomsmen is a good one. The groomsmen could also do shawl collars. You could also have the groom wear a white pocket square while the groomsmen go without.
     
  8. sugarbutch

    sugarbutch Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    I like dopey's suggestion, but I'd like to see a madras jacket like this:

    [​IMG]
     
  9. TimelesStyle

    TimelesStyle Senior member

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    What about something less formal but also less "tropical" such as a velvet shawl collar DJ? I don't honestly think anyone would notice the slippers, hence they wouldn't achieve the desired impact.
     
  10. denning

    denning Senior member

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    I just picked up this jacket. Need to nip and tuck and shorten the sleeves, but I'm looking forward to next year's holiday season.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2013
  11. dopey

    dopey Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    The slippers were more for his benefit and enjoyment than for show.
    A velvet, shawl collar DJ would be kind of cool. Get one with frogging and you basically have a smoking jacket, which is what I was suggesting. It is a bit OTT and pointless, but if that is what he wants, that is what I would suggest. The madras/tartan ones posted don't seem right for a wedding.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2013
  12. TimelesStyle

    TimelesStyle Senior member

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    I don't think I'd go with a smoking jacket and would prefer a sleeker design. Single button, shawl lapel, most likely in black (could be talked into liking burgundy or a dark forest green, though). I would not, however, do the jacket swap if wearing a waistcoat. For some reason I think a cummerbund is better suited to anything other than a SB PL black/midnight DJ.
     
  13. BackInTheJox

    BackInTheJox Senior member

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    He is going the cummerbund route, so I suppose a switch would still work. I think that the black velvet dinner jacket idea (shawl collar, one button) seems pretty good, I'll pass that one along to him.

    Velvet slippers seems interesting (and maybe along with the velvet DJ switch?), so I'll mention that too and see what he thinks.
     
  14. TimelesStyle

    TimelesStyle Senior member

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    Not sure what his financial situation is, but Suit Supply has one for under $400, may be worth pointing out to him. For some reason velvet jackets that are actually appropriate as dinner jackets aren't the easiest to find.

    Still doesn't necessarily solve the other issue. Tell me, are the groomsmen all doing the same exact tux, or is each simply responsible for getting a tux (which will dictate whether something about the suit can be the differentiating factor)?

    Particularly if each is procuring his own, I would suggest going the fly-front shirt route with the hidden placket. The vast majority of formal shirts come with either a removable placket or really cheap/crappy studs and this will save them from having to purchase a real set.
     
  15. OTM

    OTM Senior member

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    I am hereafter looking for opportunities to somehow justify a deep-red smoking jacket.
     
  16. TimelesStyle

    TimelesStyle Senior member

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    H&M sells one for $129? Seems good enough to me...
     
  17. Veremund

    Veremund Senior member

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    I think we all need to start posting pics of our dinner jackets...
     
  18. musicmax

    musicmax Senior member

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    Subtle, Variation I: groom wears flower to match bride, groomsmen wear same flower in a color that matches bridesmaids
    Subtle, Variation II: groom wears flower to match bride, groomsmen wear a different flower in the same color (calla lily/tulip for example)
    Unsubtle: groom wears tailcoat, groomsmen wear tuxedos

    Mine was at 6:30 I had everyone in tailcoats with "Subtle II" flowers.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2013
  19. TimelesStyle

    TimelesStyle Senior member

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    If the wedding calls for black tie, I'm curious what's so inappropriate about the groom in white tie and the groomsmen in black? I thought I remember reading in a thread here that it's always acceptable to wear white tie attire to an event calling for black tie but not vice versa.

    It's not a solution I'd personally go for (were I the groom), but I don't know that it's "incorrect" per se.
     
  20. unbelragazzo

    unbelragazzo Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    I think it's slightly offensive to wear white tie and force everyone else to be underdressed by wearing black.
     

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