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The State of Black Tie: Your Observations

Andy57

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As much as I do enjoy your occasional black tie rule breaking, I think it's a bit disingenuous to talk about whether you need other people's permission to wear a particular jacket. No stranger on the internet is going to stop you from wearing what you want, but there are some rules and tradition that matter to some folks and to those who care about keeping black tie alive. Otherwise, why not show up with jeans, a t-shirt, and a backwards baseball cap because nobody needs your permission to wear what you want? I know that's not what you're advocating and I respect your generally well-done coloring within (and even slightly outside) the lines of the rules, but there must be some standards and we need to talk about them coherently. Digressions into "permission" in modern culture seems a recipe for disaster.
I think you misunderstood, perhaps deliberately, when I wrote that I didn't need anyone's permission to wear a dinner jacket. I was referring to those who say that they never have occasion to wear a dinner jacket or only rarely. I personally do not wait for events that require or request black tie. I wear my dinner jacket when I want to, usually when having dinner. I don't wait for someone else to tell me to wear a dinner jacket. Furthermore, I don't care what anyone else thinks about that.

I've been to supposed black tie events where some people showed up in jeans. I guess every village has to give its idiot the occasional night off.

As for the fellow who asked about a black watch option. He asked; I gave my opinion. I think a black watch dinner jacket would be a perfectly fine thing in the right circumstances. Black watch trousers, perhaps as a novelty to a holiday party or something, but not as part of a black tie ensemble.

If your point was something else, I'm afraid it eluded me completely.
 

Bounder

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I'm thinking of introducing some black watch to break up the monotony of black tie.

2 possibilities:

1. black watch dinner jacket with black waistcoat and pants

2. Black dinner jacket with blackwatch waistcoat and pants

Which do you recommend? Or is black watch a no go? Thanks.

First, I question your basic premise. Black tie is not in the slightest bit "monotonous." Your attitude is veering dangerously close to "creative black tie," a concept that should be killed with fire wherever and whenever it appears.

I am also starting to be incredibly envious of the people posting in this thread. Apparently, everyone is going to so many black tie events that they are going mad with boredom and need to find alternatives to traditional black tie. Even white DJs -- which are actually a shockingly risque compromise with tropical weather, primarily intended for Americans in Palm Beach and Roger Moore -- are being worn with such regularity that they have to be supplemented with a variety of pastel shades. I am clearly running in the wrong circles.

The essence of black tie is fit and understatement. The art of black tie is looking exactly the same as everyone else while looking better than everyone else. Once you begin shouting for attention, you lose.

As for black watch, yes, it falls within the canon, if only just. In my opinion, it is best, ahh, suited for a party at a private home -- especially your home -- rather than large events. It works particular well during the holidays, for some reason.

And yes, as others have pointed out, if you are going to wear a black watch DJ, you wear a black watch jacket and black everything else. You don't wear black watch pants with a black jacket or a black watch jacket and matching pants. It's effectively the same substitution you would make if wearing a white DJ. And you certainly don't wear white pants with a white DJ. You're trying to look like James Bond, not Colonel Sanders.
 

am55

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The shortage of black tie occasions has led to a black tie drought from, presumably, budgetary concerns (after all, why invest in a rarely worn item) driving a race to the bottom.

As such, I would much rather see a differently (soberly) coloured jacket cut by a competent tailor (such as Andy's wonderful green piece, or the Burma shade jacket that I am sure Butler would carry off impeccably), than the shapeless horrors from rentals etc. that nevertheless tonally go by the book and draw attention through proportions (thin lapels, too high buttoning point, too short, 10cm of socks showing, etc. - or the opposite often done by Americans abroad who look for comfort in tent shaped objects difficult to reconcile with the idea of a suit).

Otherwise great RTW names such as Belvest or Sartoria Partenopea or Kiton also seem to interpret black tie "creatively". I find it somewhat sad that people comment about the "Ralph Lauren look" (such as this midnight blue shawl DB) as being "Gatsby" or otherwise uniquely Lauren, when the very defining thing of RL is their adherence to a more classical aesthetic...

I wonder what you will make of this Rubinacci (setting aside for now the idea of presenting a dinner suit for a thousand dollars and not bothering to match it with a proper shirt and tie).
 

Caustic Man

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Honestly, I see no shortage of black-tie occasions. During gala season I could go to at least one black-tie even per week for several months at a time. That said, I will go to about 2-4 galas per year because I have other things to do with my life. But the point is that it's not hard to find reasons to wear a tuxedo. Opening night at the opera, a charity ball, a special birthday (if you are so inclined). The thing is, men know they can get away without wearing one, even to formal events. So many do. If you don't see black-tie as some stuffed penguin suit you have to hobble around once or twice in your lifetime, and see it rather as a comfortable and good looking thing to wear in the evening when the occasion permits, then a whole world opens up to you.
 

am55

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The shortage of compulsory occasions, then. You said it yourself: "men know they can get away without wearing one".

The same is happening with suits for most people outside major cities, and even in white collar jobs, where the suit only comes out for interviews.
 

OscarO

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Love black tie, prob my favorite attire bar formal. Have a db and a sb, black and midnight blue respectively. Thinking of getting another one made and thinking about one in linen with large peak lapels. Anyone here with a linen dj? Was first thinking a regular ivory but unfortunately I'm not often in the southern hemisphere. Linen seems like a better alternative for summer cocktail parties and such.
 

culverwood

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I am among those who feel that black tie is not a dress code set in aspic in the 50's. Styles evolve and coloured DJs were common in the 60s and 70s where I was and I see no reason that they should not look good again today. I suspect the reason black is so common is that most people only buy one DJ and black is the safest choice.
 

archibaldleach

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I think you misunderstood, perhaps deliberately, when I wrote that I didn't need anyone's permission to wear a dinner jacket. I was referring to those who say that they never have occasion to wear a dinner jacket or only rarely. I personally do not wait for events that require or request black tie. I wear my dinner jacket when I want to, usually when having dinner. I don't wait for someone else to tell me to wear a dinner jacket. Furthermore, I don't care what anyone else thinks about that.

I've been to supposed black tie events where some people showed up in jeans. I guess every village has to give its idiot the occasional night off.

As for the fellow who asked about a black watch option. He asked; I gave my opinion. I think a black watch dinner jacket would be a perfectly fine thing in the right circumstances. Black watch trousers, perhaps as a novelty to a holiday party or something, but not as part of a black tie ensemble.

If your point was something else, I'm afraid it eluded me completely.

I did misunderstand, but it was not deliberate. It would seem my reading comprehension takes a hit after two 8% beers, two glasses of wine, and two cocktails. Apologies. I saw the comment on dove grey / tan dinner jackets and combined that with the permission comment in my head. For the record, I do appreciate folks like you who wear black tie out on a regular basis.
 

Andy57

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If you don't see black-tie as some stuffed penguin suit you have to hobble around once or twice in your lifetime, and see it rather as a comfortable and good looking thing to wear in the evening when the occasion permits, then a whole world opens up to you.
Could not have (and have not) said it better myself.

I did misunderstand, but it was not deliberate. It would seem my reading comprehension takes a hit after two 8% beers, two glasses of wine, and two cocktails. Apologies. I saw the comment on dove grey / tan dinner jackets and combined that with the permission comment in my head. For the record, I do appreciate folks like you who wear black tie out on a regular basis.
No worries.
 

palk

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Your attitude is veering dangerously close to "creative black tie," a concept that should be killed with fire wherever and whenever it appears.

...

The essence of black tie is fit and understatement. The art of black tie is looking exactly the same as everyone else while looking better than everyone else. Once you begin shouting for attention, you lose.

...

You're trying to look like James Bond, not Colonel Sanders.

(Emphasis mine.)

Horror illustration to underscore the point:
810
 

aj805

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I'm sure those examples reflect the norm for how tuxes and dinner wear are now seen, to be used only as mocking costume when it might be funny to show up riffing on Bond or 'billionaire playboy', but never sincerely. Hence the need for people to be "creative", in order to assure others that it's just all in fun.
 

Bounder

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Honestly, I see no shortage of black-tie occasions. During gala season I could go to at least one black-tie even per week for several months at a time. That said, I will go to about 2-4 galas per year because I have other things to do with my life. But the point is that it's not hard to find reasons to wear a tuxedo. Opening night at the opera, a charity ball, a special birthday (if you are so inclined). The thing is, men know they can get away without wearing one, even to formal events. So many do. If you don't see black-tie as some stuffed penguin suit you have to hobble around once or twice in your lifetime, and see it rather as a comfortable and good looking thing to wear in the evening when the occasion permits, then a whole world opens up to you.

Unfortunately, the number and variety of black tie events decreases year by year. For example, it wasn't that long ago that a chamber orchestra put on a regular series of concerts in a small venue with a black-tie dress code. It was great. Very civilized and exactly the sort of thing black tie events ought to be. The orchestra eventually decided to cancel these events because some people feared they might look "elitist."

I think it is a pity that black tie has come to be seen as so relentlessly commercial. As you point out, there is no law that says it can only be worn while participating in a silent auction. I like charity galas as much as the next one, but I wish there were more purely social opportunities to wear black tie. I have considered joining the Chaine des Rotisseurs just so I can have a regular opportunity to wear a DJ in a restaurant -- and even they have been slipping of late.


Styles evolve and coloured DJs were common in the 60s and 70s where I was and I see no reason that they should not look good again today.

Can anyone spot the error in this sentence?
 

am55

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The orchestra eventually decided to cancel these events because some people feared they might look "elitist."
That's just code for "we were not making a profit so tried to expand our audience". Usually, it comes with the word "outdated" or "stale" and there's a mention somewhere about penguins. If in the UK, something about "toffs".

A defense mentioning multiple examples: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/oct/04/eno-dress-opera-formal-wear

"Cultural elitism is to be found in those places where there appear to be no rules, no obvious codes, but where the obscure knowledge needed to be involved is the preserve of a small group whose false claim to democracy is that they don't wear a black tie."
 

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