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The State of Black Tie: Your Observations

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by mafoofan, Nov 22, 2011.

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  1. The_Foxx

    The_Foxx Well-Known Member

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    Nope! Just side tab buckles and plain bottoms-- but I figured if the combo was "correct" enough for Paul Stuart store to display this way on mannequin first floor, it was correct enough for a rube like me [​IMG]

     
  2. brokencycle

    brokencycle Well-Known Member

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    The pants just ruin any chance for that look to work.
     
  3. The_Foxx

    The_Foxx Well-Known Member

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    Haha-- yeah, it's not for everyone/ a very different take on bone white jacket. Planning to get some black tux trousers for this one as well, when more trad is called for

     
  4. Veremund

    Veremund Well-Known Member

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    Do you already own a black tuxedo? If so, just use those trousers. No?
     
  5. The_Foxx

    The_Foxx Well-Known Member

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    Yes...the thought had occurred. However both my tuxes are shades of blue, thought a more traditional black trouser would be appropriate with the white dinner jacket -- looking at suitsupply or ebay tom ford (would have to be slimmed down tho)

     
  6. ImTheGroom

    ImTheGroom Well-Known Member

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    I think they just ruin any chance for it to be black tie. I think it looks quite nice on its own merits.


    There is nothing wrong with midnight blue dinner trousers with a white dinner jacket. It's totally correct, and traditional. I'm sure some would attire they are even more so than black. I'm not one of those people but I consider the two colours interchangeable.
     
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  7. Veremund

    Veremund Well-Known Member

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  8. TimelesStyle

    TimelesStyle Well-Known Member

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    Honestly, try J. Crew for trousers. They sell separates and while the jackets are wayyyyyyy overpriced at $500+ the trousers are easier to swallow at about $250.
     
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  9. Atgemis

    Atgemis Well-Known Member

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    We are offloading stock to make way for new silks. Bows which were $165 will go to as low as $50 . We offer the best of the best. Www.lenoeudpapillon.com
     
  10. culverwood

    culverwood Well-Known Member

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    I like foxx's look - I think it stems from being a child of the 60s when we thought there were no rules and we could do everything better than our fathers rather than being a child of the 50's believing our fathers and grandfathers knew best and we had to follow them.
     
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  11. zeero3

    zeero3 Well-Known Member

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    If anyone that fits it is interested, I'm selling a truly beautiful 38R tuxedo (see signature). If it's in bad taste to be cross-posting here, let me know and I'll remove the post. Price is getting too low not to put on eBay....
     
  12. The_Foxx

    The_Foxx Well-Known Member

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    Thanks man! It is def a different look and not for everyone-- However, I can assure all of you gentlemen that there were no angry mobs of dandy protestors outside the Paul Stuart store on Madison ave when they displayed this very look on 1st floor, nor did the store receive any threatening letters from outraged sartorialists demanding the display be changed. At time of photo, they had already removed pocket silk for me to take home [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


     
    1 person likes this.
  13. TimelesStyle

    TimelesStyle Well-Known Member

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    I like the look but would only do it with the burgundy tie and cummerbund, not black. A black bow only works with navy if there are black lapel facings and the trouser stripe, even if black, isn't enough black to keep the cummerbund and trouser from clashing of you're also throwing in an ivory jacket.
     
  14. Atgemis

    Atgemis Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]

    A bow tie we did for a wedding party in new york.
     
  15. ImTheGroom

    ImTheGroom Well-Known Member

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    I

    I recall reading on blacktieguide.com that a black bow is de rigeur with a midnight dinner suit, while midnight blue is an option with a black dinner suit. So, from an etiquette perspective, it can be argued that this would carry over when the blue trousers are worn with a white dinner jacket. Of course, the black lapel facings are present in the case of the midnight blue dinner suit, so it could also be argued (just as you have, I think) that the black bow tie with the midnight suit is a matter of congruence with the facings. A midnight blue tie would have something of an identity crisis, matching the facings in material and texture, and the suiting in colour. Of course, the acceptability of maroon with the white DJ also means that one could argue that all of the rules are quite flexible. Of course, keep in mind that a black tie would likely be worn with a black cummerbund, so there would be more facings than just the trouser braid for it to match up with.

    I don't have a point, really. Just some academic musings on the topic. I think a midnight blue cummerbund and bow tie would look quite nice and, given the lax uniformity of any event allowing for choice of jacket colour, or maroon ties for that matter, I don't think there would be much stock in any argument that blue would be out of place. I suppose I've talked myself around to saying, black, maroon, midnight blue, or even navy, would have to be deemed equally correct, and equally in keeping with the dress code, at black tie's least formal level. Now, as to what is better style, I trust you'll reiterate your valid reasons for preferring maroon. I'm inclined to think, assuming all options being available to me, that I would go with midnight, or navy. Perhaps even a combination of the two - one for the cummerbund, and one for the tie. Scandalous, I know!
     
  16. TimelesStyle

    TimelesStyle Well-Known Member

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    You're right, that's exactly what I was suggesting, that the tie is meant to match the facings, regardless of the suit fabric color. So, if a midnight suit has black facings, then a black bow would be correct (when it has midnight facings, it's a matter of what matches better, black bow or midnight, depending on how close a match the midnight is).

    However your point about the midnight trouser/ivory jacket likely being paired with a black cummerbund is also noted and, IMO, supports the notion of not wearing a black bow with a midnight trouser/ivory jacket. Without lapel facings to match, the black cummerbund and midnight trouser have too much potential to clash (since nobody will see the trouser stripe from head on), which is why I'd avoid pairing them, and hence avoid pairing that particular DJ/trouser with a black bow.

    Now, if you were to suggest pairing an ivory jacket and midnight trouser with a midnight cummerbund and tie, even though it's not listed as technically "correct", I'd be all for that, and it would perhaps be my favorite overall look involving an ivory jacket. I think that dark blue and ivory actually works together better than black and ivory purely from a stylistic standpoint. For some reason this is also the one BT outfit I'd prefer with a pleated front shirt, as I almost always think Marcella looks better.
     
  17. TimelesStyle

    TimelesStyle Well-Known Member

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    Well, looks like I was wrong...

    According to BTG, even when wearing a maroon tie with an ivory jacket, the cummerbund is still supposed to be black or, presumably, midnight if wearing midnight trousers (see "neckwear" near the bottom):

    http://www.blacktieguide.com/Classic/Warm_Weather.htm

    Of course it then contradicts itself (slightly) here in the "sole exception" paragraph:

    http://www.blacktieguide.com/Classic/Classic_Alternatives.htm#color

    However this paragraph also confirms that midnight tie is OK with ivory jacket when worn with midnight trousers.

    Learn something new every day...
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2014
  18. yasu10s

    yasu10s Well-Known Member

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    Wedding from last week. Apologies for the low quality pictures. I was wearing a 4x1 peak lapel db dinner suit made by Gianni Volpe in Naples.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    1 person likes this.
  19. marcodalondra

    marcodalondra Well-Known Member

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    Yasu what a lovely DB dinner suit. Thanks mainly to you and another friend from this forum that made me look into DB from Gianni Volpe I may be ordering my first DB suit next autumn (flannel chalkstripe) ...
     
  20. yasu10s

    yasu10s Well-Known Member

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    Thanks marco for the compliment! I am looking forward to seeing your upcoming DB:)
     

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