The Rubinacci of Denim? (Roy Jeans)

[Chips]

I'm not a big SW&D poster but still felt like sharing this here in MC, hope nobody minds.

I've been coveting a new denim jean by the name of Roy, for a while now, drooling over the level of craftsmanship and attention to detail that I believe many here in MC would equally appreciate. I waited till all the goodies I wanted from Self Edge were in stock so I could pick them up all in one fell swoop. And figured I'd share a few pics that might be of interest.

Right here in sunny CA, and calling the Bay area home, is a maker who's artistry I'd venture to guess reaches the level of guys like Rubinacci, or others at the top of their game, Roy just uses denim instead.

This guy makes every aspect of these jeans entirely on his own, with an amazing amount of handwork, rather than automation. He does all the riveting by hand, and many other steps in the process that I wont try to list. I think it's especially awesome that there's a hand made American option that not only competes with, but in my opinion crushes many Japanese makers.

The thickness of the leather patch is incredible.

Details like slightly raised beltloops stand out as well.

The sewing of the button fly and button holes and the scallop edgework.

The other reason I went in was to pick up the latest copy of Inventory. To me, it's the same amazing read as The Rake, just aimed at work wear and stuff along that line. Men's File is a great read too.

And here's something else pretty cool that I saw while I was there. Our own Brian ( Moderator) designed the patch for a new collaboration between Self Edge and StyleForum. I made the mistake of using way too hot of water for my soak on my Dry Bones/Self Edge Jeans that I picked up there, and the patch shrunk like a shrinky-dink and popped off. So they offered to replace it with this. The jean isn't even out yet, but I look forward to seeing it when it is.

I don't plan on going with 3" cuffs, but this was a quick fix till I soak and shrink them.

 

[TRINI]

I see teh drape. Very Rubinacciesque.

 

[lee_44106]

Not to rain on your parade, but the most important question is whether the jeans look good on you.

 

[Chips]

I like the fit on them more than any other pair I own. The seat will shrink in after a bit. But I spared the forum the horror of seeing a close up of that. Lovehandles and cracker-ass doesn't look good regardless of the jeans you pick.

I don't intend to make a daily blog of my fitness journey, but since it applies directly to my clothing and how they fit, it serves to mention. I plan on dropping another 10-15 pounds then switching to powerlifting/squats etc, in order to build back up properly and hopefully have an ass someday. I've dropped 31 pounds in the last 7 weeks now and am getting close to my body fat % goal. I don't imagine my waist shrinking much below 35 inches though, and that's where these jeans will be after a soak.

 

[pebblegrain]

Roys look great. Personally there are couple of other denim I want first (flat head, oni). One thing which bothers me is the paper denim/Earnest sewnish pocket stitch...

 

[Chips]

Pebblegrain, since you mentioned it,

Snapped this one too ( pic not the purchase) of these. They were just released in store today. It was funny, I got the email-list update on my phone while walking thru the Mission on the way to the store.

The left hand weave of the twill is insane. I'm not a complete denim geek that can quote every detail about jeans, but these truly did kick ass. They had a very soft hand, yet still were substantial as 14-15 oz raw denim.

I just hate any kind of arcuate on rear pockets. The simpler the better IMO, one more reason I really wanted a pair of Roy.

Kiya was awesome to shoot the **** with too. He gave me some solid rec's on some boots that I'm going to look into. I'll never do Oneshoe, but I can easily see myself doing Oneboot with casual wear.

 

[cptjeff]

Not to be a downer, but...

The difference between high quality MC stuff and high quality denim is that MC is more then panels of fabric stitched together. There's a lot of structuring and shaping that simply doesn't exist on the streetwear side. And a lot of the streetwear crowd seem to value an item more if it fits badly, but in an approved way, then if it fits well.

So what makes those 'the best' basically boils down to a nice fabric and stitching (or selvage) that makes the seams look pretty. And a stamped leather patch. Give me that fabric, a pattern, and a sewing machine with the appropriate stitch settings, I can make that.

To be able to tailor a suit properly, it takes years of training. To learn how to pattern and cut one from scratch like bespoke tailors do, it takes even more study. So no, those really aren't on the same level.

They may be the 'best' jeans, but the difference between the best jeans and a pair from walmart is nowhere near as close as SW&D would have you believe, and absolutely nowhere near the difference between a men's wearhouse suit and a Rubinacci.

 

[Nataku]

Those look damn nice. Are there different models/fits, or just the one? If the latter, could you describe the fit?

 

[indesertum]

maybe if he made everything with just needle, thread, and scissors, paper and he fitted every single client he would be better than rubinacci

 

[aj_del]

^^ I have the opposite view, if Rubinacci RTW was made entirely by MR personally, it might be the equivalent of Roy jeans

 

[Chips]

Originally Posted by cptjeff

Not to be a downer, but...

The difference between high quality MC stuff and high quality denim is that MC is more then panels of fabric stitched together. There's a lot of structuring and shaping that simply doesn't exist on the streetwear side. And a lot of the streetwear crowd seem to value an item more if it fits badly, but in an approved way, then if it fits well.

So what makes those 'the best' basically boils down to a nice fabric and stitching (or selvage) that makes the seams look pretty. And a stamped leather patch. Give me that fabric, a pattern, and a sewing machine with the appropriate stitch settings, I can make that.

To be able to tailor a suit properly, it takes years of training. To learn how to pattern and cut one from scratch like bespoke tailors do, it takes even more study. So no, those really aren't on the same level.

They may be the 'best' jeans, but the difference between the best jeans and a pair from walmart is nowhere near as close as SW&D would have you believe, and absolutely nowhere near the difference between a men's wearhouse suit and a Rubinacci.

My point wasn't to say that their skill sets are the same, nor their construction. But to say in the field that each belong to, both stand out in a great order of magnitude. And I don't even own or have any first hand experience with Rubinacci, he's just the first bespoke makers name that came to mind, and, stupidly, Roy.... Rubinacci....

And comparing a Wal-Mart pair of jeans to something like this actually underlies my point. A great deal of thought, care and hands on attention, with minimal if any sacrifice to detail went into these jeans. Some POS that's stamped out in China and sold in Wal Mart for $9, although it would cover your ass, it would do little else, and it wouldn't elicit the pride in ownership that one would have in a well made garment that was made by a very talented craftsman.

I wasn't looking to start up a big debate, only to share some appreciation for craftsmanship in this form. Watching the youtube video of him making the jeans in his shop in Oakland was just as fascinating for me as watching Ambrosi et all, making their trousers.

 

[Chips]

Originally Posted by Nataku

Those look damn nice. Are there different models/fits, or just the one? If the latter, could you describe the fit?

He has a regular and a slim leg fit. Take it for a grain of salt, because I'm not a denim expert, don't claim to be. But as the look and feel right now, I'd say they're somewhat similar to STF 501's, post shrinkage, with the only exception that they rise/ top block isn't nearly as high, which I quite like. And the legs have a better tapper, even in the raw stage.

 

[cptjeff]

Originally Posted by Chips

My point wasn't to say that their skill sets are the same, nor their construction. But to say in the field that each belong to, both stand out in a great order of magnitude. And I don't even own or have any first hand experience with Rubinacci, he's just the first bespoke makers name that came to mind, and, stupidly, Roy.... Rubinacci....

And comparing a Wal-Mart pair of jeans to something like this actually underlies my point. A great deal of thought, care and hands on attention, with minimal if any sacrifice to detail went into these jeans. Some POS that's stamped out in China and sold in Wal Mart for $9, although it would cover your ass, it would do little else, and it wouldn't elicit the pride in ownership that one would have in a well made garment that was made by a very talented craftsman.

I wasn't looking to start up a big debate, only to share some appreciation for craftsmanship in this form. Watching the youtube video of him making the jeans in his shop in Oakland was just as fascinating for me as watching Ambrosi et all, making their trousers.

That's the thing though- I'm saying that the craftsmanship in even the nicest pair of jeans isn't all that remarkable or different then the ones made in China. Pride doesn't make a better pair of pants. I could do exactly what he does fairly easily, given the materials and equipment, neither of which are really all that special. Hell, the exact leather stamps he uses are available at just about every craft store in the country, and sewing machines that can do that kind of work aren't all that pricey. It does not take a whole lot of effort to use a sewing machine to sew a pair of jeans together, and it takes even less skill to cut out fabric to a preexisting pattern. It really wasn't that long ago that every housewife in the country made most of their kid's clothing in exactly the same manner. Some still do. It's simply not all that hard. And certainly not orders of magnitude harder then what the guy making 'em for wal mart is doing.

Making any canvassed suit is much, much harder. Making one from scratch with no pattern that fits a unique individual perfectly is orders of magnitude harder.

 

[bleachboy]

Strangely, I am having a hard time understanding why cutting and sewing wool takes years and years of training, but cutting and sewing cotton can be done by any old schmuck with a sewing machine.

 

[cptjeff]

Originally Posted by bleachboy

Strangely, I am having a hard time understanding why cutting and sewing wool takes years and years of training, but cutting and sewing cotton can be done by any old schmuck with a sewing machine.
Because suits (especially jackets), require much more then just cutting and sewing. And the sewing that is done requires more then just joining seams. And a significant amount has to be done by hand (needle and thread by hand). And padding and canvas has to be designed and attached, and if done wrong can ruin the garment. And the garment has to be formed and shaped. Patterns have to be matched. Talk to Despos for details. Jeans? You cut the panels and join them at the seams. Any schmuck with a sewing machine, knowledge of how to form what type of seam and which stitch to use (intro sewing books or ask your mother), and a steady hand can do that. The actual material is irrelevant. The process is different. It's sewing versus tailoring. A tailored jacket made of denim would take just as much work as one of wool. Unlined (pretty much any bespoke suit pants are going to have some lining), jean style pants made of wool wouldn't be all that hard to make.