The Rise of Style Forum-born Entrepreneurs and their Impact on Style

[F. Corbera]

Originally Posted by George

When is the next flight....

Next time, make sure it doesn't land in Cleveland.

 

[George]

Originally Posted by F. Corbera

Next time, make sure it doesn't land in Cleveland.
Bloody hell, you've got a good memory.

No, the first firm I worked for after University was a large American engineering corporation. Their head office is/was in Cleveland. They wanted me to go there but when I discussed it with my American colleagues they, to put it politely 'persuaded' me against it. I sometimes wish I'd gone, as I don't think I'd have gone back to Britain.

 

[aportnoy]

Originally Posted by Threadbearer

I believe I've been learning a lot about clothing construction and proper fit just by listening in while the Big Dogs of the Forvm discuss bespoke. I also believe that I can apply a lot of that learning without ever going bespoke myself.
Honestly I fail to see how looking at photos of clothing made by tailors in Naples (or Steed) can possibly be applied to RTW or MTM decision making. I am a bespoke customer and I can't think of a single time I've ever said to myself (or my tailor) "let's go for what Mariano or Mina did" for whomever nor would I expect someone to do likewise with what Raphael or Despos has made for me. Plus, you are taking one hell of a leap of faith in taking pointers or advice from the customer and not the tailor. Tell me that you have gained genuine insight into construction and fit from Despos or Jefferey and I will happily agree. Tell me it was pontifications of it's wearer and I'll have to agree to disagree that you have learned anything of value.

 

[T4phage]

Originally Posted by George

......
a) An American wearing a structured, wasp waisted coat and how does this vary from region to region. Are some regions or crowds more forgiving or would it be viewed with suspicion.
.....

when were those almost festishistic esquire fellowes drawings popular, and whom were they targeted at?

early ralph purple label coats

 

[Coburn]

Originally Posted by F. Corbera

For example, there seems to be an orthodoxy growing about very soporific (a.k.a., "classic") neckties. At least to my eye, they are being worn increasingly here in ways that seem to show little insight into how a subdued tie might work best.

Group think
Yes, there is a lot group think here and I'm guilty as anyone else. But, that the group would neck down to the most conservative clothes is not a surprise.

Men's clothing is best when it does not call attention to itself but, rather, evokes a penumbra of unconscious character associations.

You don't want people to look at your clothes and think, "Wow, he is very well-dressed". You want them to look at your clothes and think, "Wow, that guy is intelligent, that guy has leadership skills or, that guy has a lot of energy. " Well-fitted clothes in the classic English tradition do that. English tailoring (if well done) recapitulates the classic men's physique of a broad shoulder tapering to a narrow waist. English tailoring recapitulates the golden mean of ideal proportion emerging from renaissance Europe.

Somewhere there is an essay on this that articulates better than I do. (I think it's on Will's Blog ASW)

My interest in this forum was driven by utilitarian considerations. I'm a middle-aged engineer competing with younger men for projects and statements of work. I need to walk into an office and convince a stranger (in the first 30 seconds) to overlook my age and hand me a million dollar budget. Careful selection of clothing can do that.

The more flamboyant colors, patterns, etc can work in this way but it requires exceptional skills in matching colors, textures, patterns so that the harmony of the components does not draw attention to any one item. Few people have that refined aesthetic judgment.

The impulse to solids colors, simple design, soporific ties, etc is driven, I think, by this utilitarian desire to evoke those unconscious responses.

I suppose people need to sort out for themselves why are they here. I see people speaking at cross purposes on this forum.

I suspect that for many, especially bespoke purchasers, this is not about utility. But, instead, the manifestation of the universal human satisfaction of solving puzzles. I see the impulse to bespoke as similar to the satisfaction of crossword puzzles or, if an engineer like me, reshaping airflow with well crafted aircraft structure. They are using fabric to reshape a complex and imperfect body to a renaissance ideal.

For some I think, this is about collecting the work of fine artisans. I can't help but think some like Manton or Mafoofan are more enthralled by tailoring as art then as functional clothing. Like my brother in law who has a 300 yr old antique chair in his living room. No one is allowed to sit in it.

 

[George]

Originally Posted by T4phage

when were those almost festishistic esquire fellowes drawings popular, and whom were they targeted at? early ralph purple label coats
Yes, but wasn't Fellows an 'mericun. and therefore, did his illustrations represent the 'typical' at that time English silhouette or were they an idealised version, 'softened' for 'mericun tastes.

 

[Threadbearer]

Originally Posted by aportnoy

Honestly I fail to see how looking at photos of clothing made by tailors in Naples (or Steed) can possibly be applied to RTW or MTM decision making. I am a bespoke customer and I can't think of a single time I've ever said to myself (or my tailor) "let's go for what Mariano or Mina did" for whomever nor would I expect someone to do likewise with what Raphael or Despos has made for me.

Plus, you are taking one hell of a leap of faith in taking pointers or advice from the customer and not the tailor. Tell me that you have gained genuine insight into construction and fit from Despos or Jefferey and I will happily agree. Tell me it was pontifications of it's wearer and I'll have to agree to disagree that you have learned anything of value.
Sheesh, you've got an ugly attitude. First, please quit reading more into my post than what I said. I said that I'm listening in, not that I'm "taking advice." Second, keep in mind that as a relative newcomer to fine dressing, I'm going to have a much steeper learning curve than you and other bespoke clients. All I'm saying, then, is that I can learn a lot from listening in -- eavesdropping, if you will -- on discussions of bespoke clothing.

I can't imagine why you find that so objectionable.

 

[T4phage]

Originally Posted by George

Yes, but wasn't Fellows an 'mericun. and therefore, did his illustrations represent the 'typical' at that time English silhouette or were they an idealised version, 'softened' for 'mericun tastes.

your question was how would americans react to a particular silhouette.
the fellowes' esquire drawings were for an american audience
and was quite popular due to the run it had
so it must have been well received, at least in drawing form.

and the early purple label was of the silhouette you described
and it too was popular

 

[F. Corbera]

Originally Posted by aportnoy

Honestly I fail to see how looking at photos of clothing made by tailors in Naples (or Steed) can possibly be applied to RTW or MTM decision making. I am a bespoke customer and I can't think of a single time I've ever said to myself (or my tailor) "let's go for what Mariano or Mina did" for whomever nor would I expect someone to do likewise with what Raphael or Despos has made for me.

Plus, you are taking one hell of a leap of faith in taking pointers or advice from the customer and not the tailor. Tell me that you have gained genuine insight into construction and fit from Despos or Jefferey and I will happily agree. Tell me it was pontifications of it's wearer and I'll have to agree to disagree that you have learned anything of value.

Hmmm. I find your sentiment too dismal and pessimistic.

I find, as a group, most of the guys who wear bespoke stuff on SF are level-headed. When they are open enough to discuss or show their experiences, it makes for some of the best reading.

What others take away from that, I could not say.

 

[George]

Originally Posted by Coburn

Group think Yes, there is a lot group think here and I'm guilty as anyone else. But, that the group would neck down to the most conservative clothes is not a surprise. Men's clothing is best when it does not call attention to itself but, rather, evokes a penumbra of unconscious character associations. You don't want people to look at your clothes and think, "Wow, he is very well-dressed". You want them to look at your clothes and think, "Wow, that guy is intelligent, that guy has leadership skills or, that guy has a lot of energy. " Well-fitted clothes in the classic English tradition do that. English tailoring (if well done) recapitulates the classic men's physique of a broad shoulder tapering to a narrow waist. English tailoring recapitulates the golden mean of ideal proportion emerging from renaissance Europe. Somewhere there is an essay on this that articulates better than I do. (I think it's on Will's Blog ASW) My interest in this forum was driven by utilitarian considerations. I'm a middle-aged engineer competing with younger men for projects and statements of work. I need to walk into an office and convince a stranger (in the first 30 seconds) to overlook my age and hand me a million dollar budget. Careful selection of clothing can do that. The more flamboyant colors, patterns, etc can work in this way but it requires exceptional skills in matching colors, textures, patterns so that the harmony of the components does not draw attention to any one item. Few people have that refined aesthetic judgment. The impulse to solids colors, simple design, soporific ties, etc is driven, I think, by this utilitarian desire to evoke those unconscious responses. I suppose people need to sort out for themselves why are they here. I see people speaking at cross purposes on this forum. I suspect that for many, especially bespoke purchasers, this is not about utility. But, instead, the manifestation of the universal human satisfaction of solving puzzles. I see the impulse to bespoke as similar to the satisfaction of crossword puzzles or, if an engineer like me, reshaping airflow with well crafted aircraft structure. They are using fabric to reshape a complex and imperfect body to a renaissance ideal. For some I think, this is about collecting the work of fine artisans. I can't help but think some like Manton or Mafoofan are more enthralled by tailoring as art then as functional clothing. Like my brother in law who has a 300 yr old antique chair in his living room. No one is allowed to sit in it.
Engineers in my experience are generaly given quite a bit of leeway in the way they dress. I remember when I worked in industry, which is quite a while ago that I would have been viewed with 'suspicion' if I'd have been dressed to the nines, there was/is almost an expectation that engineers being the practical, creative people they are should look a little 'dishevelled'. So I always turned the Dandy-ifier down a few notches. Given that you are based in Seattle I'll take a stab; Boeing?

 

[F. Corbera]

Originally Posted by George

Yes, but wasn't Fellows an 'mericun. and therefore, did his illustrations represent the 'typical' at that time English silhouette or were they an idealised version, 'softened' for 'mericun tastes.

The extended structured shoulder, heavily draped look was indeed a popular look of the time, and reached an exaggerated endpoint in the early 1950s.

Originally Posted by T4phage

and the early purple label was of the silhouette you described
and it too was popular

As early adoptor of Years 1 and 2 of RLPL, I can say one thing with certainty: it was not popular.

It's fun to see some of it on MBrenin, although I have yet to see the the Nuttery/Blade's versions that I wore on him yet.

 

[T4phage]

Originally Posted by aportnoy

.....
Plus, you are taking one hell of a leap of faith in taking pointers or advice from the customer and not the tailor. Tell me that you have gained genuine insight into construction and fit from Despos or Jefferey and I will happily agree. Tell me it was pontifications of it's wearer and I'll have to agree to disagree that you have learned anything of value.

a car is a car
and engineers from different manufacturers can tell you how they build it
but each have their own different setups
so the driving experiences of a bmw owner/kia owner/chevy owners will be different

are you telling me that only the engineers can tell you what is what
and not the drivers?

and what if only two engineers write on this forum?

if that is what you believe
you need to learn moar

 

[UrbanComposition]

Originally Posted by F. Corbera

Just to switch gears a bit: several of you responded in this thread that SF (and perhaps other online forums) has had impact in your own choices and has also provided a vehicle for buying things (through the types of sellers I mentioned in the OP and also through this sites B&S threads) consistent with these choices. How does this interrelated cycle affect the comments that you might make in threads about what others wear?

I believe there can be an appreciation for a style that I myself would not wear. As an example, while I prefer suits (and have bought some on B&S) over sportcoats, I think there are a few here that wear sportcoats well, and I comment accordingly.

Originally Posted by Master Squirrel

Originally Posted by aportnoy

This place just gets dumber by the day.
The place is only as dumb as the people who post here.

This. There are those who contribute, have dialogue about matters that interest them, and share experiences. There are also those who equate all of what is posted as unassailable, and regurgitate what they read. They are likely the same people who read "Every man should have a tuxedo," buy one, and never use it, rather than see if such advice actually pertains to them.

Originally Posted by George

Question:

What would be the typical American reaction be to:

a) An American wearing a structured, wasp waisted coat and how does this vary from region to region. Are some regions or crowds more forgiving or would it be viewed with suspicion.

I have two DB suits with a flared skirt. I live in San Francisco. I have no idea if these two points are related, but there you go.

Originally Posted by Coburn

I suspect that for many, especially bespoke purchasers, this is not about utility. But, instead, the manifestation of the universal human satisfaction of solving puzzles. I see the impulse to bespoke as similar to the satisfaction of crossword puzzles or, if an engineer like me, reshaping airflow with well crafted aircraft structure. They are using fabric to reshape a complex and imperfect body to a renaissance ideal.

For some I think, this is about collecting the work of fine artisans. I can't help but think some like Manton or Mafoofan are more enthralled by tailoring as art then as functional clothing.

Something that need be done (i.e. covering your peas & carrots and/or staying warm) need not be solely a necessary method of propriety or functionality, and I'd wager that for many who visit this forum would agree, otherwise they wouldn't be here. To continue your example: The most sought-after engineers are those who are able to do exactly as you say - create functional art. Such creations not only serve its functional purpose in space, but also appeal to aesthetics in order to, explicitly or subliminally, evoke feelings of balance, harmony, power, etc. The same can be said of clothing.

 

[T4phage]

Originally Posted by F. Corbera

....

As early adoptor of Years 1 and 2 of RLPL, I can say one thing with certainty: it was not popular.

It's fun to see some of it on MBrenin, although I have yet to see the the Nuttery/Blade's versions that I wore on him yet.

and as someone who wanted to buy a year one purple label cashmere db sportscoat
it was popular, for it sold out in all four retailers that carried it.

as did a few other pieces which i liked
='(

 

[F. Corbera]

Originally Posted by T4phage

and as someone who wanted to buy a year one purple label cashmere db sportscoat
it was popular, for it sold out in all four retailers that carried it.

as did a few other pieces which i liked
='(

I had this wild, 3 roll 2 navy odd jacket with a trim skirt and shoulders like an aircraft carrier that could have been exactly on a old Blade's pattern. I wish that I had kept it...RL supplied Cheshire with some amazing fabrics.