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The poker tips and bragging thread

Discussion in 'Entertainment, Culture, and Sports' started by idfnl, May 25, 2010.

  1. RedScarf7

    RedScarf7 Senior member

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    How much do those big poker stars make a year excluding endorsements? I know they have their swings, but is it closer to high six figures, low seven figures, or up near high sevens? Guys like Helmuth, Ivey, Negranu, etc...

    I wouldn't underestimate how much money these players make in a year. Phil Ivey is beyond sick, and he literally wagers millions of dollars at a time when he plays craps. People speculate that he could be worth close to half a billion, conceivably. He, along with others, have major stakes in FTP which is a multi-billion dollar business. His online wins amount to slightly less then $20 mil since the games have been tracked. A fraction of his live winnings.

    One rumor I heard that seemed to have a decent amount of credibility was that Tom Dwan had won 10 mil in one night at Bobby's Room. Considering the stakes they play and the wealthy people they play with, 10mil in one night is possible.
     
  2. RedScarf7

    RedScarf7 Senior member

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    ^ you owned 1/2 pretty fast!

    I guess. This was over 2 years ago, and the games were still somewhat soft.
     
  3. driveslowk

    driveslowk Senior member

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  4. RedScarf7

    RedScarf7 Senior member

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    Tom Dwan is scary.

    Yeh, total elf-like poker beast. I dunno if the public is familiar with him at all or if they realize that he is arguably the best NL/PLO player in the world. Not to mention that he is as sick as Ivey is. I'm not sure if you are familiar with the durrr challenge, but he put up 1.5mil to a challengers 500k saying that they couldn't beat him 4 tabling 200/400 or higher NL/PLO over 50k hands. Laying 3:1 to any person in the world is a pretty bold challenge.
     
  5. alan

    alan Senior member

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    Used to play online and got up to grinding 2/4 pretty successfully, now i spend a lot less time on poker and im playing live.

    The amount of fishes in my live game is unbelievable. The 10/25 game is a gold mine, but im taking it slow and playing 2/5.

    I think when you get serious about poker the amount of information that you had no idea about before is amazing, like how to balance your ranges and exploit other people's, etc...
     
  6. idfnl

    idfnl Senior member

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    It seems to me that to play those high stakes cash games effectively, the players could either benefit from or need to have to have an inherent disregard for money to some degree in order to be able to prevent themselves from buckling under the pressure. That would obviously make them somewhat vulnerable to shortsighted financial risks and bankruptcy. It's an interesting mix.

    I dont understand it personally. It would be impossible for me to plop even 100 on a single bet let alone thousands and more these guys do. The money is just too hard to come by to be tossing it around like its nothing.

    Just look at Jimmy "the Greek" Snyder. Made millions, gig at CBS, the works, and then left his kids nothing at all. Anyone see the 30 for 30 on him? At the end of his life old producers were having sympathy lunches with him and he was begging one of them for 40$.

    You need a certain mentality for a professional card playing lifestyle, but like many other things in real life, you only hear about these people's wins, not the losses. I'd be willing to bet that more of them are destitute than successful.

    For me, 100$ and a night playing cards is fun. I could give a shit if I lose that much. Cheaper than dinner with da wife, any more, and I'm thinking about and thus ceases to be fun.
     
  7. zalb916

    zalb916 Senior member

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    I've heard some of these stories about Matusow. Does that mean he's not as good as his fame would suggest or is he simply messed up in the head? Is the reputation of his skills high?
    No, the skills are high. It's his incredible irresponsibility. Here's an article that kind of explains how he operates: http://www.usatoday.com/sports/2006-...-matusow_x.htm Literally days before he went to jail, he won $250,000 in a WPT event. He admits to losing all of that in jail, making sports bets. If it makes sense, it's almost because his skills are so high that he has money problems. He knows that he can always make a lot of money playing poker. He knows he's that much better than other people. He just can't curb his spending, gambling, and other bad habits outside the poker room. Read about Stu Ungar. He's probably the best example of amazing talent and skills, but with no self control.
     
  8. idfnl

    idfnl Senior member

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    No, the skills are high. It's his incredible irresponsibility. Here's an article that kind of explains how he operates:
    http://www.usatoday.com/sports/2006-...-matusow_x.htm
    Literally days before he went to jail, he won $250,000 in a WPT event. He admits to losing all of that in jail, making sports bets. If it makes sense, it's almost because his skills are so high that he has money problems. He knows that he can always make a lot of money playing poker. He knows he's that much better than other people. He just can't curb his spending, gambling, and other bad habits outside the poker room.

    Read about Stu Ungar. He's probably the best example of amazing talent and skills, but with no self control.


    So what does it tell you when a guy does x for a living. When he gets home, he continues to do x, and then on the weekends x again?

    Obsessive compulsive? Addition? Degenerate gambler?

    Look, when you have skills and use them and profit, then you're good. If you squander the profits on stupidity then you are a loser. You might as well not have the skills and just pump gas.

    There are lots of skilled losers out there.
     
  9. PinkPantser

    PinkPantser Senior member

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    i'm in vegas for the summer, who wants to bankroll me for the full venetian deep stack series?

    barring that you can find me at the venetian playing 8/16 mix on the weekends during the series

    also, i'd play in a SF pstars sit&go (subscribing to this thread)
     
  10. Superfluous Man

    Superfluous Man Senior member

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    I dont understand it personally. It would be impossible for me to plop even 100 on a single bet let alone thousands and more these guys do. The money is just too hard to come by to be tossing it around like its nothing.

    Just look at Jimmy "the Greek" Snyder. Made millions, gig at CBS, the works, and then left his kids nothing at all. Anyone see the 30 for 30 on him? At the end of his life old producers were having sympathy lunches with him and he was begging one of them for 40$.

    You need a certain mentality for a professional card playing lifestyle, but like many other things in real life, you only hear about these people's wins, not the losses. I'd be willing to bet that more of them are destitute than successful.

    For me, 100$ and a night playing cards is fun. I could give a shit if I lose that much. Cheaper than dinner with da wife, any more, and I'm thinking about and thus ceases to be fun.


    If the bet you make is going to yield a positive expectation over the long run and $100 is a tiny fraction of your operating capital then making the bet shouldn't affect you at all. I know media glorifies poker as a game where you read souls and gamble it up but the reality is professional players aren't much different from securities traders or entrepreneurs. They seek out profitable situations that won't put large portions of their operating capital at risk. Those who play casino games or play stakes higher than their skills or bankroll can handle are taking the worst of it.
     
  11. LawrenceMD

    LawrenceMD Senior member

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    So what does it tell you when a guy does x for a living. When he gets home, he continues to do x, and then on the weekends x again? Obsessive compulsive? Addition? Degenerate gambler? Look, when you have skills and use them and profit, then you're good. If you squander the profits on stupidity then you are a loser. You might as well not have the skills and just pump gas. There are lots of skilled losers out there.
    in my line of work they are the cardiothoracic surgeons... even the surgeries they do are high risk to begin with, so it bleeds right into gambling problems (along with alcoholism/drug addiction/general stupidity) with them... but doctors in general suck at poker (there's a tip! find a doctors house game and proceed to laugh at the donkey play). in medschool it became like playing golf with the boss so i actually had to tank some nights for my consultants to save face. eventually i found other games that i could just play anonymously thats where the real fun began.
     
  12. Steve Smith

    Steve Smith Senior member

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    I specialize in pot limit Omaha 8 now. I think the best advice for other players is to learn other games. You have a huge competitive advantage, because most players only understand hold 'em. There are so many other great games out there, and they all require very different types of knowledge.

    Sam Farha says that if hold'em is the Cadillac of Poker then pot limit Omaha is the Porsche. O/8 is a much more interesting game. Some of the hitters in the world of poker have predicted that Omaha will eclipse hold'em in popularity. I think that will happen, but only after the fad of online NL hold'em tournaments on TV slows down.

    IMO, hold'em is a flawed game because so few hands are playable. I can profitably play LL hold'em (Sit n Gos mostly), but there is not enough action in it for me. Full Tilt has an interesting format for Sit n Go which is called Matrix. It involves playing 3 simultaneous SNG's with the same 9players. Matrix tournaments can only be played online, but they go a long way toward making the game interesting.

    There is another level to "other games" which has not been discussed in this thread. In home games you may encounter oddball games which are never spread in any casino. The older the players, the more likely you are to encounter this. Think about Omaha played with 5 or 6 cards in your hand rather than 4. How about Omaha/Padooki? Wrap your mind around that one.

    Hold'em is just a game which someone dreamed up and dealt in a home game one day. It caught on and has become hugely popular. People still play 32, Padooki, endless variations of Omaha and Stud.....the list goes on. Most of these games are consistently winnable for a good player, probably even more so than hold'em. But they are more interesting to play because you can play more hands.
     
  13. zalb916

    zalb916 Senior member

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    Most of these games are consistently winnable for a good player, probably even more so than hold'em. But they are more interesting to play because you can play more hands.
    These are the two main reasons I play pretty much exclusively PLO8 on the internet. I have a competitive advantage, because at the stakes I play, I know the game better than most of the other players. That doesn't mean I'm particular good. It just means the other people don't have an understanding of the game. For instance, AA in hold 'em is a great starting hand, but AA9Q is an awful starting hand in O8, particularly if unsuited. I've watched so many people lose a lot of money in O8 overvaluing AA, because they play with a hold 'em mentality. I also just find O8 more interesting. There's more action. I see more flops. I'm not patient enough for hold'em.
     
  14. Pennglock

    Pennglock Senior member

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    Something that isn't often talked about... when you venture into the highest stakes tables, you find yourself playing against a team of players. Most of the regulars have a piece of each others action. The amount of total hands played at these stake is relatively low, so players have to pool their risk to survive the variance. The idea is to take money off of tourists and fish, not each other.

    Think of going it alone alone at the big game at the Bellagio, where you might have $500k in play. A winning player in $100-$600 buy-in games need a bankroll of 20-30 buy-ins to avoid the risk of ruin from variance. As you go up in stakes, variance explodes as the average skill of your opponent increases and the style of play becomes more aggressive. 50 buy-ins is probably the target in $2,500 tables and beyond (at least online.) To to be properly rolled to take yourself in the Bellagio game you'd need a $20 mm poker bankroll. I am pretty sure most top pros don't have this. The exceptions are the guys with equity in Full Tilt like Lederer, Ivy and Ferguson- who I think pull down about $1mm per month from their ownership.

    For a couple of years, Guy LaLiberte of Cirque du Soleil was almost single-handedly funding the nosebleed action online. The $50-$100 table is empty, Guy sits down, and suddenly you have 5 pros sitting in within a minute and a long wait-list.
     
  15. SpooPoker

    SpooPoker Internet Bigtimer and Most Popular Man on Campus Dubiously Honored Affiliate Vendor

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    OK - everyone shut up about the pros. I feel like playing a little poker. Im setting up a table in a few minutes on pokerstars and Ill sit there for a bit if anyone wants to play. Ill do a $50 buy in, no limit. Anyone who wants to join either respond the thread or PM me.
     
  16. SpooPoker

    SpooPoker Internet Bigtimer and Most Popular Man on Campus Dubiously Honored Affiliate Vendor

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    OK - everyone shut up about the pros. I feel like playing a little poker. Im setting up a table in a few minutes on pokerstars and Ill sit there for a bit if anyone wants to play. Ill do a $50 buy in, no limit. Anyone who wants to join either respond the thread or PM me.

    ah shit - I just realized you can only start a private tourney. im online now if anyone wants to find an empty table and go en masse, let me know.
     
  17. SpooPoker

    SpooPoker Internet Bigtimer and Most Popular Man on Campus Dubiously Honored Affiliate Vendor

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    ah shit - I just realized you can only start a private tourney. im online now if anyone wants to find an empty table and go en masse, let me know.

    Nobody?
     
  18. Pennglock

    Pennglock Senior member

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    Would have to be FTP for me man. Pokerstars claims I owe them several thousand dollars and I have no intention of ever paying.
     
  19. PinkPantser

    PinkPantser Senior member

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    i've got $2.94 on stars [​IMG]
     
  20. BDC2823

    BDC2823 Senior member

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    i've got $2.94 on stars [​IMG]

    Haha i got you beat.

    Just downloaded it...I reformatted over 2 years ago so it's been that long since i played it...and I have $6.20
     

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