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~The Plan~

Ott

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Originally Posted by Techno-Elf
Anyways I have a fdst motablism (sp) I have lost 15 lbs in a week and a half before but I wasnt eating hardly anyhting, but the point is that I can lose weight fast if I try.
this has nothing to do with your metabolism. You ate "hardly anything" and lost a whole lot of water weight (and muscle probably) as your body went into starvation-mode. This isn't healthy or productive in any way. You gained it all back later (and them some) right? Do not starve yourself. Especially if you're exercising regularly, your body will need a good amount of solid/healthy foods in order to lose fat. Might seem contradictory, but it's not.
 

Aaron

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Techno-Elf, no offence to you or anyone who has replied with some good advice, but you should see a trainer for two or three sessions. A certified trainer can talk to you about your goals, design a program that meets those goals, and walk you through the exercises (it's very easy to injure yourself from overuse and improper form weightlifting). A good trainer can figure out what will work for your body type and fitness goals and give you some guidance on nutrition as well. Most gyms have trainers on staff that can do this and if you ask any semi or pro athletes in your area they'll certainly have recommendations.

One of the biggest mistakes people make when they start weight lifting is doing too much, too soon with too little knowledge. I hurt myself pretty badly that way, then I hired a trainer who I saw once a month to help get me into a program. I think it was around $50 a session and it was the best money I ever spent. Hope this helps.
 

Techno-Elf

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10 mins Elliptical
10 mins Treadmill
10 mins Stationary Bike

5 x 5 Squat
5 x 5 Deadlift
5 x 5 Bench Press

Hows this??
 

Ott

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Aaron- I agree to an extent, but one must be wary of terrible trainers. Most of the PTs at my gym send the girls to the BOSU balls for ab crunches and the guys to the smith machine for 1/4 squats. I'm not saying trainers are a bad idea, but just because someone has their certification, doesn't mean they're not wrong
blush.gif
Originally Posted by Techno-Elf
10 mins Elliptical 10 mins Treadmill 10 mins Stationary Bike 5 x 5 Squat 5 x 5 Deadlift 5 x 5 Bench Press Hows this??
Well, better. But why do you not want to follow the routine Noesis posted? Honestly. If you follow that routine and do cardio on your days off, as well as eat right, you will see results. I don't see why you insist on making up your own.
 

Techno-Elf

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Because I dont know how to do some of them..

Also Im going to lift and do cardio mon - fri mornings, its easier for me and I would see fast results...

Thats why.. Any help on how to do them...
 

Aaron

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Originally Posted by Ott
Aaron- I agree to an extent, but one must be wary of terrible trainers. Most of the PTs at my gym send the girls to the BOSU balls for ab crunches and the guys to the smith machine for 1/4 squats.

I'm not saying trainers are a bad idea, but just because someone has their certification, doesn't mean they're not wrong
blush.gif
Well, better. But why do you not want to follow the routine Noesis posted? Honestly.

If you follow that routine and do cardio on your days off, as well as eat right, you will see results. I don't see why you insist on making up your own.

That's very true, there are a lot of ****** trainers out there. I was lucky and found a woman who trains semi-pro and Olympic athletes and I believe had a Masters in Sports Nutrition and Training or something like that. You have to be weary, but they're as good as gold when you find a good one.

As for your program Techno-Elf, you've gone from one extreme of too many isolational exercises to too many compound movements. Doing squats and deadlifts together isn't really a good idea.
 

Ott

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Originally Posted by Techno-Elf
Because I dont know how to do some of them.. Also Im going to lift and do cardio mon - fri mornings, its easier for me and I would see fast results... Thats why.. Any help on how to do them...
you mean some of the exercises? If you pick up Starting Strength and use this site: http://www.exrx.net/Lists/Directory.html you should be covered. There is a learning curve involved here.. also you will not see faster results by doing cardio and resistance training back to back. This is just wrong. You'll just tire yourself out and decrease your strength gains. EDIT- if you must do them on the same days, then do one in the morning and one in the evening.
Originally Posted by Aaron
As for your program Techno-Elf, you've gone from one extreme of too many isolational exercises to too many compound movements. Doing squats and deadlifts together isn't really a good idea.
again I disagree to an extent
wink.gif
I try to keep deadlifts and squats on seperate days, but it *is* doable. Maybe not such a good idea when just starting out, though.
 

Noesis

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I agree that coaching is important, but self-teaching lifts is possible. It really helps if you have an equally motivated training partner. The trouble is there are really only a limited number of good coaches around. Like Ott said, most personal trainers aren't particularly well trained themselves. I've only met two, and I've been in gyms forever. Actually, I've met FAR more hobbiest lifters that knew their stuff than trainers. In order to find a good coach you normally have to travel.

Deadlifting three days a week is the express lane to overtraining. I don't know many athletes that deadlift more than once a week, it simply kills you. Squatting can be done three days a week, normally if one day is a light day and cardio isn't overdone.
 

Ott

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Noesis do you think I could teach myself to clean without killing myself? there are no good personal trainers at my gym
frown.gif
 

Noesis

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Cleans are much more technical than squats and deadlifts. If you really wanted to learn the olympic lifts, I'd say a coach is required. Olympic lifting is great, and very rewarding, but for the amount of work you need to put into learning the lifts correctly, you could make a lot of progress using non-oly compound lifts.
 

knucks

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Stop being an idiot, and do something like this: (stolen from a bb on a fitness board i frequent)

Mon - Legs
4 sets leg ext 10-15reps
4 sets squat 6-10 reps
3 sets leg press 10-12 reps
4 sets leg curl 10-12reps
3 set db stiff legged or walking lunges

Tues - Chest
4 sets incline db or barbell 8-12
3 sets flat db or barbell 8-12
3 sets db fly or machine 12-12 reps
2 sets weighted dips

WED OFF

thur - back
bodyweight pullups 4 sets upto 15
bent over row barbell or db 4 sets 8-12
front pulldown wide or narrow (switch it up) 3 sets 8-10
cable row 3 sets 6-10
behind the head(ya ya they're bad blah blah blah) 2 sets 15 reps Medium easy weight...just squeeze.

fri - shoulders/arm
3 sets db press or front military 8-10
3 sets side laterals 10-12
3 sets reaer lateral machine or db 10-12
6 sets shrugs behind the back for 3 sets and too the front for 3

tris
3 sets 10-15 rope pushdown
3 sets french curl bar or machine 6-10
3 sets reversed push down (palms facing) 8-10

bis
3 sets barbell curl or cambered bar 8-12
3 sets preacher machine or db/barbell 8-12
2 sets hammer curl db or rope 10-15
wrist curls 13-20 reps 2 sets
Do abs mon-thur

Do calves tue-fri

Practice things like drop sets and giant sets on certain weeks as well. Say on bench you decided to do a 3-4 rep weight...well after you get 3-4 drop it in half and do another 12 right away...push yourself.

DIET

meal 1
6 eggwhites 2 yolks
3/4 cup oatmeal water or 1% milk
one scoop whey protein
meal2
can of tuna
1/2 cup rice
light italian dressing(olive oil)
meal 3
6-8oz chicken
5oz sweet potato
1/2 cup green beans
1 tbsp peanut butter
meal 4
1 can of tuna
1/2 cup rice
light italian (olive oil)
train
meal 5
2 scoops whey, 1 gatorade
meal 6
6-8oz sirloin or steak
large dinner salad with red wine vinegar/olive oil
 

minhi

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i'm curious why everyone is recommending so much weight work when his main goal seems to be weight loss? he wants to lose 60 lbs in about 100 days. i agree that some weight lifting would be helpful but definately not for muscle gain as most of that will be negated by the amount of cardio needed to trim down and his reduced calorie intake to trim down.

That much weight loss means a calorie deficit of roughly 1500 calories a day. i think he should be more focused on how to burn calories efficiently and more importantly laying out a strategy for what to eat. i think you can definately use weight lifting as part of it (to burn calories), but with so few calories he can't focus on muscle gain.

personally i think it's very difficult to trim down while gaining muscle, i think the body needs enough calories while lifting and it's much easier to give it extra calories (and get a little more body fat as a result) then to try to get just enough, too often you short change and all that work lifting is wasted. if you want to bulk up i think gaining some fat is fine, then focus on losing it once you're at a target size you're happy with.

oh and 60lbs in 100 days is a little extreme to me...
 

drizzt3117

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Originally Posted by minhi
i'm curious why everyone is recommending so much weight work when his main goal seems to be weight loss? he wants to lose 60 lbs in about 100 days. i agree that some weight lifting would be helpful but definately not for muscle gain as most of that will be negated by the amount of cardio needed to trim down and his reduced calorie intake to trim down.

That much weight loss means a calorie deficit of roughly 1500 calories a day. i think he should be more focused on how to burn calories efficiently and more importantly laying out a strategy for what to eat. i think you can definately use weight lifting as part of it (to burn calories), but with so few calories he can't focus on muscle gain.

personally i think it's very difficult to trim down while gaining muscle, i think the body needs enough calories while lifting and it's much easier to give it extra calories (and get a little more body fat as a result) then to try to get just enough, too often you short change and all that work lifting is wasted. if you want to bulk up i think gaining some fat is fine, then focus on losing it once you're at a target size you're happy with.

oh and 60lbs in 100 days is a little extreme to me...


I'm with minhi...

If I was trying to lose a lot of weight fairly rapidly, I'd first do cardio and diet, and round it out with body weight exercises (probably push-ups/situps to start with, I'm not totally sure but I would think someone with no weight training would find it pretty hard to do chin-ups or dips at 280 lb)

I also wouldn't be shy about using some sort of ECA stack.

I don't think it would be impossible to meet his target goal IF (and this is an enormous IF) he is able to control his diet.
 

Violinist

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Originally Posted by Techno-Elf
10 mins Elliptical
10 mins Treadmill
10 mins Stationary Bike

5 x 5 Squat
5 x 5 Deadlift
5 x 5 Bench Press

Hows this??


First of all, that's way too little cardio.

Secondly, there's absolutely no sane reason to only do 10 minutes of each activity. You need sustained cardio activity... what you're proposing will just break that up.

Just go to the gym in the morning, do an hour of cardio before you've eaten anything. Then, at night, go do your weights and possibly cardio after that. If you want to meet your goal by May, I'd do that.

With regards to your diet, don't lie to yourself. If you're 18 years old and 280 lbs, you certainly don't have a "fast" metabolism. Go see a trainer man, because right now you're going nowhere fast.
 

Brian SD

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Drizzt/minhi I see where you're coming from, but llifting heavy weights while severely reducing caloric intake is not a mass-building regimen. I think Noesis' posts are golden. A friend of mine who is an absolute nut preached nearly the exact same advice to me. A lot of it is pretty common sense:

Eat a balanced diet - a surplus of calories if you're trying to gain weight, a deficit if you're trying to lose.

Seperate cardio from weights. Use cardio as a way to burn off the lactic acid you accumulate from the lifting.

Elf, I'm sure that the sets you have constructed sound great to you, but you have to also understand that you're really going to overwork yourself and most likely burn out from that. If you are dedicated enough to devote 5 days a week to fitness, I would advise mon/wed/fri as lifting days and tue/thur as cardio days. You only need 45 minutes or so to work yourself to the bone.

If you follow Noesis' advice, you will lose weight. Hitting your goal may be a little difficult, but individual experiences vary, so I encourage you to try your best. Don't be discouraged if it doesn't work out how you wanted it to, though, and keep up with fitness. It might take you until your sophomore year of college but the dedication will pay off.

I'd also advise seeing a professional, since the advice here really only covers the exercise part of it, while the nutritional side is just as important for losing weight, probably considerably more. Since you are 18, you have youth on your side and the risk of hurting yourself isn't as great as someone trying to drop 60 pounds when they're 40 years old. Definitely true. But I would still seek professional advice at your current weight level. They have the experience necessary to help define goals and set paths for you to meet them.
 

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