The perils of overdoing it.

[John Ellis]

Originally Posted by Despos

What I take to be the core of your post comes down to personal standards, when given flesh and blood render themselves as personal style.
My basic rule is dress appropriately to the occasion but then personal taste comes in and makes everything a bit blurry. It used to eat me up internally what people would pick out or the styling requested and I would have to make for them. (I am a tailor) To resolve the issue I resigned myself to know it was about their self perception and their signature look and not my place to redefine those ideas. This gave me a sense of peace about the matter.

My conclusion. Understatement is undervalued.

I think you have it exactly right Despos. So much of our choice of clothing is about our perceptions of self. Over the years I've found that the perceptions that I had of myself proved incorrect in many cases(I have the pictures to prove it) and by a process of trial and error have hit on a personal presentation which in shorthand terms I'll call pure Flusser. Basically the classical rules which make even not particularly attractive late middle aged folks like me look pretty good. In fact better than pretty good sometimes so that attractive woman go WOW which does wonders for one's self esteem. Actually I love understatement and overstatement provided they work. And there are rules of a sort for overstatement. Hence all this debate about tweeds. Some loud, and I mean loud baby, tweeds can look great in London or NYC some look simply preposterous. Without having the garments here it's tough to define but like quality which is hard to describe, you know it when you see it.

 

[John Ellis]

Originally Posted by Film Noir Buff

I appreciate this look but I think it might have an overly powerful effect for most.

I doubt if i need worry about you, none of my enemies have interesting, personal style.

It's effect is undoubtedly intimidating which is why they were so popular in the British empire. HAHA.

Thanks for the backhanded compliment but I'm bound to say I've found some of my most effective enemies were those most totally lacking in personal style.

 

[Manton]

Originally Posted by John Ellis

Thanks for the backhanded compliment but I'm bound to say I've found some of my most effective enemies were those most totally lacking in personal style.

It wasn't a backhanded compliment so much as it was another blind attack on me.

BTW, if you think that gun club is preposterous, you should see some of the stuff that this guy has posted over the years. Makes that gun club look like a plain weave solid gray worsted.

 

[Film Noir Buff]

Originally Posted by John Ellis

I've found some of my most effective enemies were those most totally lacking in personal style.
That's something we have in common, then.

 

[voxsartoria]

Originally Posted by John Ellis

Some loud, and I mean loud baby, tweeds can look great in London or NYC some look simply preposterous. Without having the garments here it's tough to define but like quality which is hard to describe, you know it when you see it.

Shall we do a reality check?

Using my taste as the guinea pig, many people have now weighed in the LL gun club, either here in this thread or the one that I started to get opinions on how to get it made up.

Since you use it as an example of something that crosses the line for you, how do you interpret the near unanimous vote that it does not cross the line among responding fellow sartorial idiot savants?

If you were merely describing your own taste, it would not matter, but you have made a John T. Malloy-ish case about the effect of such clothes on the opinions others have of the wearer.

Would you consider the possiblity that your tastes are confined to such a small population that consideration of that population's reaction is of little concern?

That would only leave the question of what looks good or not, as mafoofan points out.

- B

 

[John Ellis]

Originally Posted by mafoofan

I'm sorry, I thought this was a discussion of taste. I'm not sure how a discussion of practical ramifications can be particularly philosophical or even relevant. I'd be shocked if it turned out that people here are making bad style choices because they're trying to look more professional.

Actually it philosophical discussion about both personal taste and how practical ramifications like weight of cloth can impact perceptions of choices in the social or professional arena. None of these concepts are mutually exclusive.

 

[Manton]

I must say, cloth weight is really the last thing I worry will affect people's perceptions. Color, pattern, cut, model, detailing all come well before that. I doubt most people even can tell the weight of the cloth you are wearing by sight, and even if they can, I doubt they hold that it has any special significance.

 

[Zegnamtl]

deleted......

 

[John Ellis]

Originally Posted by voxsartoria

Shall we do a reality check?

Using my taste as the guinea pig, many people have now weighed in the LL gun club, either here in this thread or the one that I started to get opinions on how to get it made up.

Since you use it as an example of something that crosses the line for you, how do you interpret the near unanimous vote that it does not cross the line among responding fellow sartorial idiot savants?

If you were merely describing your own taste, it would not matter, but you have made a John T. Malloy-ish case about the effect of such clothes on the opinions others have of the wearer.

Would you consider the possiblity that your tastes are confined to such a small population that consideration of that population's reaction is of little concern?

That would only leave the question of what looks good or not, as mafoofan points out.

- B

The thread about the gun club tweed merely started the thought process that led me to start this thread which is about much wider issues of perception and taste. Neither do I recall quoting it as example of crossing the line although I probably implied it. I've said this several times although folks keep wanting to bring it back to a discussion of a narrow issue of tweeds as you appear to do. And with due respect I don't consider the sartorial idiot savants posting here as typical cross section of your fellow citizens who would be doing the perceiving of whether a particular item crossed the line into self parody so that instead of being seen as a stylish dresser you were dismissed as slightly eccentric. So in that context their opinion is not worth much. And indeed it does all comes down to a question of whether it looks good or not. Both in our eyes and the eyes of the majority of the beholders.

 

[voxsartoria]

Originally Posted by John Ellis

For example I was castigated for suggesting that a beginner might team a Hermes tie with navy blue suit and white shirt.

Hah! I think my response was a smiley, not the most brutal form of castigation.

But, if we are still dealing with the premise of how clothing affects others, I don't mind repeating the affect that seeing someone wearing a typical Hermès figurative print:

- B

 

[John Ellis]

Originally Posted by Manton

I must say, cloth weight is really the last thing I worry will affect people's perceptions. Color, pattern, cut, model, detailing all come well before that. I doubt most people even can tell the weight of the cloth you are wearing by sight, and even if they can, I doubt they hold that it has any special significance.

Sorry can't agree there. An over heavy suit looks a bit silly even if the girl on reception couldn't tell you its precise weight. I'm somewhat surprised you don't see that to be honest.

 

[John Ellis]

Originally Posted by voxsartoria

Hah! I think my response was a smiley, not the most brutal form of castigation.

But, if we are still dealing with the premise of how clothing affects others, I don't mind repeating the affect that seeing someone wearing a typical Hermès figurative print:

- B

Irony just isn't your thing is it VOX.

 

[aportnoy]

Originally Posted by Film Noir Buff

That's something we have in common, then.

Big talk from a big man.

 

[Manton]

Originally Posted by John Ellis

Sorry can't agree there. An over heavy suit looks a bit silly even if the girl on reception couldn't tell you its precise weight. I'm somewhat surprised you don't see that to be honest.

Here are two very similar suits, in different weights -- in fact, at roughly the opposite end of the scale:

Is it really so obvious at a glance what each of them weighs? Is it so obvious to a non-SF-honed eye to spot the heavier cloth at a glance? Does the heavier cloth really look all that archaic?

 

[John Ellis]

Originally Posted by Manton

It wasn't a backhanded compliment so much as it was another blind attack on me.

BTW, if you think that gun club is preposterous, you should see some of the stuff that this guy has posted over the years. Makes that gun club look like a plain weave solid gray worsted.

Manton dear boy I caught his implications and totally ignored that aspect of them since I'm one of your greatest admirers. And I'm not being ironical.