The Oxford-Shoe-Worn-Casually Appreciation Thread

[barutanseijin]

This is a costume?

View attachment 1687111

That picture looks like it was take 748, when they finally got the stride and the sunglasses grip just right, so yes, that’s a costume.

 

[Nobilis Animus]

That picture looks like it was take 748, when they finally got the stride and the sunglasses grip just right, so yes, that’s a costume.

And #menswear people are all rooted in so much real-life confidence that they post the first snapshot they take, right? Give me a break.

 

[dieworkwear]

How is it so difficult to understand that the overall aesthetic point of an outfit matters more than the sum of its parts? Just because I post a picture to make point doesn't mean that I endorse the outfit 100%. Unlike some, I don't place that much value on a few photos.

(And before some nitwitted fashion blogger gets the wrong idea into its head: these are merely examples of wearing oxfords casually that I happen to like on that particular individual, not some prescriptivist taste-board that I'm pronouncing everyone should adopt religiously - or whatever ridiculous notion prevails in your eel-like trade.)

I don't know how we're supposed to talk about things. First, you said that this is not a prescription for other people, just how the outfits look on the individuals. I said that these look bad even on the individuals. Now we're not supposed to talk about the totality of the outfit on the individuals, but ... I guess just the part under the ankle? Isn't the point to discuss how this combo can be worn casually with the whole outfit?

Also, if you don't like the tight jacket, then why say that the tight fit actually signals something about class and prep school?

 

[barutanseijin]

And #menswear people are all rooted in so much real-life confidence that they post the first snapshot they take, right? Give me a break.

You miss the point. It has to be labored and posey because it’s put on. Like a costume.

I‘m just stridin’ around this here airfield projecting my wealth and cool. Oh them ox-fords? Just happened to grabbem before gittin in MY PLANE. Y’all noticed the sunglasses? Yep, piloted it m’self.

 

[Nobilis Animus]

I don't know how we're supposed to talk about things. First, you said that this is not a prescription for other people, just how the outfits look on the individuals. I said that these look bad even on the individuals. Now we're not supposed to talk about the totality of the outfit on the individuals, but ... I guess just the part under the ankle? Isn't the point to discuss how this combo can be worn casually with the whole outfit?

It isn't a prescription, but it also matters that the criticisms of those outfits (even if they're valid) are focused on aspects that seem to have little to do with whether or not the person is wearing oxfords.

Maybe you like the outfits on those people and maybe you don't. That's different from pointing out whether oxfords work with that particular outfit.

Also, if you don't like the tight jacket, then why say that the tight fit actually signals something about class and prep school?

Because it speaks to the aim of the outfit - i.e. looking at it from the perspective of the wearer. It's a guess on my part. I live near several private schools (not Catholic ones) and see variations on the preppy blazer thing all the time. This one is obviously put on for the photo, but it's reminiscent enough of real life examples.

I wear a blazer myself sometimes, but I don't like it so tight on me since it doesn't suit my frame as well.

 

[Nobilis Animus]

You miss the point. It has to be labored and posey because it’s put on. Like a costume.

I‘m just stridin’ around this here airfield projecting my wealth and cool. Oh them ox-fords? Just happened to grabbem before gittin in MY PLANE. Y’all noticed the sunglasses? Yep, piloted it m’self.

I wouldn't be surprised if that actually was his plane, to be honest. David Gandy probably gets paid enough for it.

 

[dieworkwear]

It isn't a prescription, but it also matters that the criticisms of those outfits (even if they're valid) are focused on aspects that seem to have little to do with whether or not the person is wearing oxfords.

Maybe you like the outfits on those people and maybe you don't. That's different from pointing out whether oxfords work with that particular outfit.

I don't like the choice of oxfords in those outfits, but I also don't like the outfits as a whole. I don't know if they would be improved if the person wore a different shoe because the entire aesthetic is not pleasing to me.

Because it speaks to the aim of the outfit - i.e. looking at it from the perspective of the wearer. It's a guess on my part. I live near several private schools (not Catholic ones) and see variations on the preppy blazer thing all the time. This one is obviously put on for the photo, but it's reminiscent enough of real life examples.

I wear a blazer myself sometimes, but I don't like it so tight on me since it doesn't suit my frame as well.

I don't think anyone objected to the use of a blazer, but the specific ways in which that blazer was worn (also, it's not a blazer).

I also don't think actual prep school kids dress like that, but I don't claim to be close to wealth and privilege.

 

[Nobilis Animus]

I don't like the choice of oxfords in those outfits, but I also don't like the outfits as a whole. I don't know if they would be improved if the person wore a different shoe because the entire aesthetic is not pleasing to me.

Ok, sure. Then it's probably enough to say that those are not to your taste. But it's less an issue of "learn how to dress classically" at that point, because it's not a given that A) someone dressed classically is dressing tastefully, and B) that anyone's version of tasteful - yours or mine - is worth the striving to attain.

I think we can agree, for example, that the jeans + jacket look is one which has become a part of the CM repertoire. But the question of whether oxfords might look good with that, or whether the jeans should be slim or not, is surely different from broad ideas about taste? I can look at this, for example,



and point out several things that I like about it: the way that something vaguely masculine is actually enhancing Cara's femininity through the use of accessories; the fact that the coat, waist covering, and trousers are all cut perfectly and are very flattering; the attitude/boyish haircut of the wearer, etc. (it's worth pointing out that she asked the bride+groom, her friends, beforehand and they were delighted to let her try something more creative for the wedding).

Conversely, this is probably shocking to the standards of traditional wedding etiquette. Perhaps not all of her outfit is totally on-point. You might even think it bad. But can you really say that the outfit isn't aesthetically pleasing without inserting tons of baggage about 'proper form,' social context,* and classical rules? I think that this is where we diverge on these questions.

(*also worth noting is that Cara Delevingne is the great-granddaughter of a Viscount, so she can get away with whatever she damn well pleases)

I don't think anyone objected to the use of a blazer, but the specific ways in which that blazer was worn (also, it's not a blazer).

I also don't think actual prep school kids dress like that, but I don't claim to be close to wealth and privilege.

See, this narrow definition of 'blazer' is precisely the sort of thing I mean. What does it need besides contrasting buttons, casual cut, and a solid colour, then? Patch pockets?

I think that any of us here who post about bespoke suits/shoes, expensive accessories, and literally spraying 1000s of dollars on our skin in the form of fragrances have lost the right to be claiming distance from privilege.

 

[dieworkwear]

See, this narrow definition of 'blazer' is precisely the sort of thing I mean. What does it need besides contrasting buttons, casual cut, and a solid colour, then? Patch pockets?

 

[Nobilis Animus]

View attachment 1687201

You could simply have said that you consider anything lacking metal buttons not to be a blazer. I'm not sure everyone would agree with that.

 

[dieworkwear]

You could simply have said that you consider anything lacking metal buttons not to be a blazer. I'm not sure everyone would agree with that.

I posted the image because I thought it would help capture more of the nuance.

I have always understood a blazer to mean a coat with metal buttons, often emblazoned with the insignia of a club, university, or some other kind of organization.

However, I have noticed that men who wear oxfords with jeans often use the term "blazer" in very loose ways, often to describe navy sport coats with regular buttons, or at times, even just non-navy sport coats such as tweeds.

So yes, I agree that not everyone would agree on the meaning of this term. When David Portnoy tweeted out "sportcoat or blazer," I was somewhat surprised by the range of answers. But that doesn't mean that's how the term was traditionally used.

IMO, if you went into a tailor's shop and ordered a blazer, you will get a navy sport coat with metal buttons.

If you go to Ben Silver's website and head to the "blazer button" section, it's all metal buttons.

Ben Silver Blazer Buttons and Cufflinks - The Ben Silver Collection

Emblematic Blazer Buttons and Cufflinks

www.bensilver.com

Brooks Brothers used to have this in their books. The term "golden and fleece buttons" is a typo. It refers to Brooks Brothers' brass buttons with the Golden Fleece logo.

 

[ValidusLA]

You could simply have said that you consider anything lacking metal buttons not to be a blazer. I'm not sure everyone would agree with that.

Wait...what?

Almost everyone I've spoken to about this understands "blazer" to mean metal buttons.

This seems to me to be far better understood outside CM-Space then even what is an oxford vs derby.

Also regarding Cara Delivigne. Being the great granddaughter of a Viscount means precisely nothing. Being hot and rich let's her do whatever she wants.

 

[Nobilis Animus]

Wait...what?

Almost everyone I've spoken to about this understands "blazer" to mean metal buttons.

This seems to me to be far better understood outside CM-Space then even what is an oxford vs derby.

Also regarding Cara Delivigne. Being the great granddaughter of a Viscount means precisely nothing. Being hot and rich let's her do whatever she wants.

I cannot believe I'm about to side with the descriptivists on anything, but I think that today the term means something different from the old rowing/naval blazer connotations. Something with MOP buttons, for example, is hardly not-a-blazer if it fits all the other criteria - and I don't know anyone who would object to that.

As for Cara, that sort of thing does matter in certain places/situations. The point is that she's not committing some kind of social faux pas if she decides to get creative with her outfit.

 

[ValidusLA]

I cannot believe I'm about to side with the descriptivists on anything, but I think that today the term means something different from the old rowing/naval blazer connotations. Something with MOP buttons, for example, is hardly not-a-blazer if it fits all the other criteria - and I don't know anyone who would object to that.

As for Cara, that sort of thing does matter in certain places/situations. The point is that she's not committing some kind of social faux pas if she decides to get creative with her outfit.

Her ancestry might still lander her at society parties and afford her invitations, but there are plenty of women descended from princes, dukes, and earls who would be derided for dressing like that.

She is a beautiful, successful model and actress - and that is the sole reason people care.

Just more Star-Fing. Like cooing over Daniel Craigs terrible fits.

 

[ValidusLA]

IMO, if you went into a tailor's shop and ordered a blazer, you will get a navy sport coat with metal buttons

100%.