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The Oxford-Shoe-Worn-Casually Appreciation Thread

JFWR

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I had a casual day today with no client facing meetings and it’s cold here. I’m awful at fit pics but in the name of science I decided to throw my most casual oxfords with the outfit. It lasted long enough to try and take a picture
View attachment 1690346 View attachment 1690347
I changed quickly View attachment 1690348 View attachment 1690349
Because I’m bad at the full pics closer details of the jacket
View attachment 1690350
There's a difference between these two pictures:

In one, I'd say that the shoes add a little bit of formality to the outfit and elevate it to dressier as a consequence.

In the other, the suede diminishes formality of the outfit, and makes it seem much more casual as a consequence.

I personally prefer the oxford look, as I'd rather be up, rather than down.
 

Jmr928

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There's a difference between these two pictures:

In one, I'd say that the shoes add a little bit of formality to the outfit and elevate it to dressier as a consequence.

In the other, the suede diminishes formality of the outfit, and makes it seem much more casual as a consequence.

I personally prefer the oxford look, as I'd rather be up, rather than down.
Nothing about that outfit was supposed to be formal - It’s an intentionally casual combination with a heavy Harris tweed jacket that’s completely unstructured with flapped bellows pockets, a pair of jeans and a denim shirt.
 

JFWR

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Nothing about that outfit was supposed to be formal - It’s an intentionally casual combination with a heavy Harris tweed jacket that’s completely unstructured with flapped bellows pockets, a pair of jeans and a denim shirt.
Okay. I understand what you were going for. It's a nice outfit, but I'd want to add a touch of formality myself.

You do, you. You dress well.
 

Jmr928

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Okay. I understand what you were going for. It's a nice outfit, but I'd want to add a touch of formality myself.

You do, you. You dress well.
I just think the look starts to fall apart if I start to tweak the details and push them to a direction they aren’t suited for.

As an example that isn’t the pair of shoes in this scenario since I know we disagree on oxfords and non-oxfords I think it maybe best to focus on other aspects.
IMO the heavy tweed and jean combo wouldn’t work well with something like a white 170/2 broadcloth shirt and French cuffs.

Similarly - If I wanted to keep the denim shirt, jeans and chukkas, I don’t think it would be a good combo to add something like a worsted jacket with flapped pockets and a ticket pocket in something like this fabric even though it’s a fairly similar shade
8C98A174-ED89-4D72-804A-423D565A17FD.jpeg
 

JFWR

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I just think the look starts to fall apart if I start to tweak the details and push them to a direction they aren’t suited for.

As an example that isn’t the pair of shoes in this scenario since I know we disagree on oxfords and non-oxfords I think it maybe best to focus on other aspects.
IMO the heavy tweed and jean combo wouldn’t work well with something like a white 170/2 broadcloth shirt and French cuffs.

Similarly - If I wanted to keep the denim shirt, jeans and chukkas, I don’t think it would be a good combo to add something like a worsted jacket with flapped pockets and a ticket pocket in something like this fabric even though it’s a fairly similar shade View attachment 1690581
I think I agree with you on all the points above. That French cuffs would come off as too fancy on an informal shirt here, especially in light of connecting it to that jacket which is thicker and more casual.

I also agree the ticket pocket would be too much.

I think a big part of this has to do with the overall affect the outfit has on me. Jackets and pants take up a big space, visually speaking. Shoes take up less. So to me, adding a slightly more formal pair of shoes dresses up the outfit without distracting from it - there isn't a clash if the shoes are suitably informal, which your brogues were. If you wore black cap toes with that, though, yeah, that'd be dumb as hell.

Otherwise, I have no objections to anything you said at all.
 

acapaca

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You see the same pathology across multiple subjects, sometimes all at once.

View attachment 1690510
Pathology? I think that word reveals much about the divide here. People should be interested in clothes in the plural (it's lamentable when they are not), but when they are interested in clothes in the singular it's a disease.

You may find that point of view defensible, but recognize that it's a very narrow swath of land you are standing on.
 

物の哀れ

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Pathology? I think that word reveals much about the divide here. People should be interested in clothes in the plural (it's lamentable when they are not), but when they are interested in clothes in the singular it's a disease.
The divide is not between those that are interested in "clothes in the singular" and those that are interested in "clothes in the plural".

The divide is between those that primarily value objects and those that primarily value style.

I’m comfortable calling the former a pathology - I see it in myself.

You may find that point of view defensible, but recognize that it's a very narrow swath of land you are standing on.
That’s okay - I’m used to it.
 
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'patanoster

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I only ask because I've never seen you, @yorkshire pud, and some others in any of the tailoring threads. It feels like there's a cohort here that's specifically interested in this thread and this thread only.
Appreciate that this wasn't necessarily directed at me (and FWIW I like all the 'English men in loafer' looks you posted -- those guys are all (as far as I know) people in the industry, who have an interest in dressing well)

But as its a slow Saturday morning, to weigh in on which threads I post in as a relatively new member of the forum... Current threads like unfunded liabilities (and various of the historical discussions in the more CM vein) are ones I check in on and read with interest. However, I'm a relatively young guy with a relatively small amount of money in the bank and a relatively new interest in tailoring, I have relatively little to add to the discussion in those threads. I'm also not the kind of person to share stuff I've acquired on the internet (what little it is... one MTM suit so far in a relatively conservative charcoal puppytooth. Recent posts in unfunded liabilities of dark brown chalkstripe has made me wonder if that should be next...).

Sadly I also, at work at least, follow the crowd in business casual dress, albeit I hope slightly better than the average. I've outed myself now! One day I'd like to wear CM more freely at work, but since I don't have the depth in my wardrobe yet to do it, business casual will have to do for now.

For all the circular arguments, this place still has a wealth of information and interesting and engaged users who keep it worth coming back to. As and when I have anything to contribute to those discussions, I intend to, but right now all I've got to offer is anecdotal data on how often I see loafers around London. Adding value where I can... ;)
 

acapaca

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The divide is between those that primarily value objects and those that primarily value style.

I’m comfortable calling the former a pathology - I see it in myself.
And how do you achieve style without combining objects? Like, how is that possible? How do you form a sentence without words? Words are objects, no?

How is it legitimate, fruitful even, to discuss extended shoulders but not, say, Norwegian welts? If an extended shoulder says something, if its effect on silhouette is part of the meaning that the message conveys, then surely the same thing can be said about a Norwegian welt. And we can carry this as far as you like. Perhaps the patch pocket is to the jacket as the split toe is to the shoe. How do you achieve style without thinking about these details?

Like, how does it come to be that some words, some syntactical constructions, are legitimate, or worth talking about, while others aren't? I know one reason why, but let's see what you think.
 

Jmr928

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And how do you achieve style without combining objects? Like, how is that possible? How do you form a sentence without words? Words are objects, no?

How is it legitimate, fruitful even, to discuss extended shoulders but not, say, Norwegian welts? If an extended shoulder says something, if its effect on silhouette is part of the meaning that the message conveys, then surely the same thing can be said about a Norwegian welt. And we can carry this as far as you like. Perhaps the patch pocket is to the jacket as the split toe is to the shoe. How do you achieve style without thinking about these details?

Like, how does it come to be that some words, some syntactical constructions, are legitimate, or worth talking about, while others aren't? I know one reason why, but let's see what you think.
I don’t think anyone’s saying you CAN’T focus on or be interested in the details of a pair of shoes. You know that I am and that we are in a lot of the same threads about shoes. I think people are saying the pitfalls are when people are excessively or exclusively focused on just the shoes - When there is no interest in other aspects of CM, style or how to pair outfits.

Just thinking about the other threads we engage in - How often do you see someone ponder *how* they might pair the shoes that they’re ordering? What combinations might work. What environment? That maybe throwing a Cuban heel and fiddleback waist and patina on a very casual derby might not be the best choice?

If someone did this with ties I think we would have near universal agreement that would be silly. If someone decided they just loved ties and was exclusively focused on what tie they were ordering and paired them with polos, with t shirts, with shorts. We wouldn’t say “well ties are an important thing why can’t we talk about the small details of them and if they like they tie they should wear it with whatever they want.”

Would we care that the tie is untipped and has hand rolled edges and is a 7 fold if someone put it with a pair of shorts and an aloha shirt? Or would we encourage them to maybe check out some other combinations and if they like to wear ties maybe to check out tailored clothes?

This is the compartmentalization that we’ve lamented. Where anything goes because you want to MTO those shoes or because you just want to wear them so why not pair them with whatever you want? Shoes are being treated as if they’re the only objects and that they can be paired however the wearer wants and the only justification needed is that they wanted to wear them. If someone wants to that’s their prerogative and they’re free to do so but that doesn’t make someone immune to criticism or feedback and people can and should be able to point out how they might work better and not look bad.
 

acapaca

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Where anything goes because you want to MTO those shoes or because you just want to wear them so why not pair them with whatever you want? Shoes are being treated as if they’re the only objects and that they can be paired however the wearer wants and the only justification needed is that they wanted to wear them.
And I think this is a gross misrepresentation of those threads. It is a gross misrepresentation of the motives behind why most people on SF buy shoes. It's just out of touch with reality, to claim that it accurately represents the attitudes and approaches of the majority of people who post in those threads.

I mean, do people really believe that guys would wear ties with swimsuits, or dress shoes? Do people really think that guys pay no attention at all to how they dress, as if they were wearing teapots on their feet? It strains credulity to the point of ridiculousness, to make those claims.
 

Jmr928

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And I think this is a gross misrepresentation of those threads. It is a gross misrepresentation of the motives behind why most people on SF buy shoes. It's just out of touch with reality, to claim that it accurately represents the attitudes and approaches of the majority of people who post in those threads.

I mean, do people really believe that guys would wear ties with swimsuits, or dress shoes? Do people really think that guys pay no attention at all to how they dress, as if they were wearing teapots on their feet? It strains credulity to the point of ridiculousness, to make those claims.
I’ve absolutely seen people wear balmoral boots with shorts, oxfords with no show socks, shorts and t shirts, polos with chinos and sleek purple patina’d oxfords. These aren’t hypotheticals. I have literally read their reasoning being “I wanted to wear these shoes so I did.”

I’m not going to go through and take screenshots of these guys posts and put them on blast but yeah, this is a real thing. I’m simply saying that a lot of guys would benefit from being asked “how the fuck do you plan to wear those” instead of people saying “oh my god the spi on those is crazy and that patina is so cool”
 

dieworkwear

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And I think this is a gross misrepresentation of those threads. It is a gross misrepresentation of the motives behind why most people on SF buy shoes. It's just out of touch with reality, to claim that it accurately represents the attitudes and approaches of the majority of people who post in those threads.

I mean, do people really believe that guys would wear ties with swimsuits, or dress shoes? Do people really think that guys pay no attention at all to how they dress, as if they were wearing teapots on their feet? It strains credulity to the point of ridiculousness, to make those claims.
I feel like this is pretty common. The shoe threads are full of non-traditional or overly dressy designs. Examples: blue shoes, green shoes, purple shoes; oxfords and wholecuts. Those shoes express formality and the virtuosity of the shoemaker, so people buy them. But I'm not sure they have the wardrobe for it.

You and @JFWR have said you like blue dress shoes. Do you have suggestions for how they can be worn well? Ideally with photographic examples of full outfits?
 
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UrbanComposition

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I'd like to think @Jmr928 is utilizing hyperbole, but I'm afraid not. What he describes happens often.

There's this guy I know here locally that's really into clothes, just like all of us. We met about 6 or 7 years ago, and at at the time he didn’t know where to start. Up to this point he was into business casual but wanted to make a few changes. I recommended he train his eye to see how things go together, specifically how the details all add up, and how the sum is truly greater than its parts. Upgrade a bit at a time so he keeps the style he's comfortable with, that sort of thing...

Months later I see him in the same outfit - 3sixteen jeans, an OCBD, navy sport coat, and...purple St Crispin's oxford brogues.

"Nice shoes," I said, because they are. Then, "I gotta ask, though: what were you thinking?" He shrugged. "I don't know. I just love them."

Now, don't get me wrong; if your goal is to wear what brings you joy, I'm all for that. If, though, your goal is to ensure the singular objects fall together as part of a cohesive whole, you've got a bit more to consider.
 

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