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The OneShirt: A Phoenix from the Ashes [4/24/13 UPDATE: A SHIRTMAKER, AN ENGLISHMAN, CHAMBRAY, AND F

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by mafoofan, Mar 20, 2013.

  1. mactire

    mactire Senior member

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    Eliminate the impossible and whatever remains however improbable must be the cause. My money's on it being money, they're hardly charging a bomb for bog standard polycotton out of the goodness of their hearts.
     
  2. unbelragazzo

    unbelragazzo Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Or it was an intentional and honest choice, however ill-advised, by the fabric designers that wasn't then communicated forcefully enough to the sales people. This seems way more likely to me.
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2013
    1 person likes this.
  3. emptym

    emptym Senior member Moderator

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    Maybe there's something to SG's claim that the poly adds something to the character of the cloth. Lands' End or a similar company back in the 80's or early 90's made all their t-shirts out of cotton except for their heathered ones. Those had a bit of poly in it, and they claimed it was for the heathering.

    LE doesn't say this currently, but here's a link to Champion t-shirts in which only the heathered one has poly.

    Edit: Actually, LE has a bit of poly in their premium, made in the US t-shirts -- again, only for the heathered ones. Same is true for their sweats.
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2013
  4. dieworkwear

    dieworkwear Senior member

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    Just a note for people who were interested in the oxfords and chambrays I posted earlier. A member on here advised that I take it down, since the merchant is not technically set up to do retail sales (only wholesale). If you're interested in the cloth, you'll need to go through your shirtmaker.

    The previous posts are now taken down. Apologies for the mistake.
     
  5. RogerC

    RogerC Senior member

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    It seems that the way forward is clear: commission a custom run of chambray with Acorn or a similar maker. I'd be happy to sign up - I've been looking for a nice, variegated shirting that can be dressed up or down according to the occasion. Perhaps also in a winter and summer weight?
     
  6. hendrix

    hendrix Senior member

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    1. I don't get it. You've been told by shirtmakers that the stuff is crap.

    2. Apart from touch, feel and appearance, what exactly is there to shirting fabric?


    Basically, I don't understand that your outrage is happening now as opposed to when you were told by your shirtmaker that the stuff is crap. It's crap because it's crap, not because of the revelation that it contains polyester.

    There may well never be nice shirting that contains polyester, there may eventually be. I don't know. But crap shirting is crap shirting and I don't know why you need the discovery that it contains polyester to confirm that for you when you'd already been told so by multiple sources.

    Again, what was it that you initially liked about the SG chambray?

    You're not even pretending that it's a unique fabric anymore, so what was it that you found attractive?
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2013
    3 people like this.
  7. bertie

    bertie Senior member

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    Good questions. I wonder if there are lessons here to be learned other than outrage?
     
  8. bertie

    bertie Senior member

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    Didn't Vox get a bunch of dress shirts made up in SG chambray? How did he get fooled? Will he disavow his shirts? So many questions.
     
  9. poorsod

    poorsod Senior member

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    My understanding is that the chambray is fine stuff if it were $2-$5 per yard, instead it is $50 per yard. I bought it at $50 per yard. The shirt made from it is fine, though may not be the best value for the money. I still haven't seen a cheaper alternative in real life with the same color and texture.

    I think there is a tendency for people to divide things into black or white (you know who you are), e.g. good vs bad, beautiful vs ugly, natural shoulder vs pa-f***ed shoulder and etc. In my experience, there is a lot of gray between black and white. It is the granularity and shades of gray that make the world what it is and I think the world is richer for it.
     
    5 people like this.
  10. dieworkwear

    dieworkwear Senior member

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    I agree. Some things, for example, are 80% good and 20% bad or 80% beautiful and 20% ugly.
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2013
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  11. bertie

    bertie Senior member

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    Speaking of statistics - we have had assertions that some are 99 percent more sophisticated than all the other plebes. I guess they are beyond the 80/20 rule the rest of us live by.
     
  12. andreyb2

    andreyb2 Senior member

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    Fixed
     
  13. Coburn

    Coburn Senior member

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    FWIW
    My tailor here in Seattle (with workshop in HK) has complained for years that there is an enormous amount of counterfeit fabric coming out of China. His long time supplier retired recently complaining that he could not maintain a reliable supply chain.
     
  14. Coburn

    Coburn Senior member

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    By using polyester fibers, the manufacturer can blend very low quality cotton fiber. By low quality I mean very short fibers. Fibers so short, they may be unusable as a 100% cotton shirt.

    Polyester is basically a very long and strong fiber. To get that in cotton, you need the relatively expensive long fiber cotton such as South Sea, etc.
     
  15. marcodalondra

    marcodalondra Senior member

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    yes but this an Internet / forum phenomenon. My shirtmaker said almost exactly the same thighs that Shirtmaven said when showing me the cut offs of SG from a fellow member that had shirt made there. He would not have dreamt of having shirt made of that stuff. Alumo also got great reputation, people would buy it here just because they read here it is great, but personally do not like the touch so much, I prefer G&R or Atelier Romentino at equal finesse. So I trust my touch, not what people may say here as groupthink .
     
  16. Eustace Tilley

    Eustace Tilley Senior member

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    +1

    I don't think the senior guys at SG are sitting in some hollowed out volcano, stroking their Persian cats, while plotting world economic domination via poly-blended shirts. Get real, guys.
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2013
  17. mafoofan

    mafoofan Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    No, they just decided to make shirting out of really cheap yarns, lie to people that it's all cotton, and charge a monstrous premium on that fraudulent basis. That is a disgusting, and illegal, business practice--no matter how you cut it.

    Also, keep in mind, the polyester content itself is not the only component that cheapens the fabric. Cotton used in a blend is not likely to be nice cotton. Think about it. Where does the fuzz come from? There is no magic weaving technique. It's just plain-woven. It's obviously the fibers used.
     
  18. unbelragazzo

    unbelragazzo Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Then why wouldn't they do the same for their pocket squares?
     
  19. Shirtmaven

    Shirtmaven Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    do we know the price that SG sells the fabric to the trade at?
    i do not. so there could have been a very large mark up added by the price by he assorted distributors, and shirtmakers..

    I know of a mill in Europe that is off the radar.. They produce an excellent 80% cotton/20% poly shirting.
    I even made one up for myself years ago. Poly/cotton makes me very hot. I did not wear the shirt that often.
    but as a blend, i was very impressed. much better then the liquid ammonia dipped 100% cotton wrinkle free shirts
    a quality blend does exist. But blends in this country are considered very low quality. Most were very low quality.

    maybe this work shirt chambray was woven with Poly so the workers would not have to spend too much time ironing out a shirt in the morning.

    I would guess that the fabric was developed because certain French unions wanted their workers to wear garments produced in France. from fabric to finished product.
    this is only an educated guess.
    at some point someone thought it would be "cool" to make a dress shirt from this fabric.
    someone else of sartorial influence saw the shirt and wanted one. this is how trends are started.

    go look at SWD. they have been wearing "chambray" shirts for years.

    going back to the original point of this one shirt thread.
    I suggested using an End on end. or a finer version of pinpoint oxford.
    the chambray would look dated in another year. Trends have there expatriation date.
    While a truly classic fabric could be worn until the shirt needs to be retired, or have collars and cuffs replaced.

    do you all remember when the Italians wore nothing but French Blue end on end?
    where is that trend now?
     
    7 people like this.
  20. Eustace Tilley

    Eustace Tilley Senior member

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    Chill out. You love going from one extreme to the other.
     
    5 people like this.

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