1. And... we're back. You'll notice that all of your images are back as well, as are our beloved emoticons, including the infamous :foo: We have also worked with our server folks and developers to fix the issues that were slowing down the site.

    There is still work to be done - the images in existing sigs are not yet linked, for example, and we are working on a way to get the images to load faster - which will improve the performance of the site, especially on the pages with a ton of images, and we will continue to work diligently on that and keep you updated.

    Cheers,

    Fok on behalf of the entire Styleforum team
    Dismiss Notice

The OneShirt: A Phoenix from the Ashes [4/24/13 UPDATE: A SHIRTMAKER, AN ENGLISHMAN, CHAMBRAY, AND F

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by mafoofan, Mar 20, 2013.

  1. msulinski

    msulinski Senior member

    Messages:
    2,139
    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2012
    Location:
    NYC
    Does your washer have an agitator? Those things can destroy your clothes much more quickly than the washers without.

    Also, this may be a stupid question, but do you wash the shirt after each wearing?
     
  2. YRR92

    YRR92 Senior member

    Messages:
    2,345
    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2012
    Single cuffs would strike me as odd, but then again I like that french cuffs are heavier than barrel -- and I have no problem with barrel. It would a weird stylistic choice, for me, but you're approaching it from a tactile perspective.

    Why no love for the placket? I find the asymmetry of french-front shirts off-putting, even though I don't mind front pockets. That's inconsistent of me, but oh well.

    I can't help but think the four shirt option would be the most prudent -- being able to choose between light blue end-on-end with spread collar and blue chambray BD makes sense to me, along with the two patterns.

    A pair of questions:

    1. If you went BD, would you wear it with a DB suit?

    2. Would you regard gingham as a summer pattern, or wear it year-round?
     
    1 person likes this.
  3. mafoofan

    mafoofan Senior member Dubiously Honored

    Messages:
    20,795
    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2007
    

    The twills wore out faster, but the poplins followed shortly. I'm not sure of the fineness of the yarns, as Riva doesn't provide numbers--or at least, none were made available by my shirtmaker.

    If it is really the case that Riva shirting must be hand-washed for acceptable longevity, it isn't an option for me anyway. That's just too much of a hassle. My wife would kill me.


    Like I said, I will have patterns, too. But, from my experience, plain blue is best 80% of the time.
     
  4. unbelragazzo

    unbelragazzo Senior member Dubiously Honored

    Messages:
    8,355
    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2011
    Location:
    Washington, DC
    To me the universe of wearable shirts is basically blue, white, pink (sparingly), bengal stripes, and (mostly for no tie) gingham and tattersall. That's pretty much it. There might be the occasional shirt that falls outside this that is good, but it's rare. Some people like various shades of off-white, I've never really had a taste for them.
     
    2 people like this.
  5. mafoofan

    mafoofan Senior member Dubiously Honored

    Messages:
    20,795
    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2007
    

    We use side-loading machines. I don't believe there is anything like an agitator in them.

    Yes, the shirts are washed after each wearing.


    Never really thought of the asymmetry until you mentioned it. I prefer going placket-less because the look is much cleaner and less fussy that way.


    1. Sure, why not?

    2. I'd wear it year round, with a tie. I know that's probably against the rules, but I don't care. I think it is under-utilzed and far superior to regular checks.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2013
  6. dopey

    dopey Senior member Dubiously Honored

    Messages:
    14,577
    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2006
    Kamakura is adding MTM in a month or so. They may be a good candidate for you. Their current BDs are lined but not fused and the collar has a great shape. Quality is good and I assume will be equally good or better in MTM.
    What do you have against gauntlet buttons? I will be disappointed if you simply don't like them - I am hoping for something more thought out and prescriptive, suggesting why gauntlet buttons are bad and should be avoided.
    I get them out of habit, even on FC shirts, which is a no-no. I should probably drop them on, at least, NSM's FC shirts since they used to do such a nice sleeve opening and bar tack on those when there was no gauntlet button. Does anyone know if they still do?
     
  7. mafoofan

    mafoofan Senior member Dubiously Honored

    Messages:
    20,795
    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2007
    

    I agree with you in principle. You only need a few basic, elemental shirting patterns. One stripe and one check. In my experience, the bolder, larger versions are more usable and versatile--hence, my preference for bengal and gingham.

    Rather than pink, my first choice after blue would be a burgundy and white bengal stripe.
     
  8. Manton

    Manton Senior member Dubiously Honored

    Messages:
    41,568
    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2002
    Location:
    In Hiding
    I've never had Geneva express any anti-placket opinion. All mine have plackets. I don't even remember if we discussed it but my first order was a long time ago.

    So, most of that stuff you listed is just personal preference. The only one I would question is the single cuff. I would question it on two grounds, first, that all your shirts would take links (bad idea) and second, that you'd want your link shirts to be single rather than double. Also, your objection to loose button cuffs is easily remedied in the bespoke process, I've gotten mine exactly the circumference that I like, trim without being loose or snug.

    I think your choice of fabric also unecessarily excludes seasonality and I don't see what benefit you derive from that.

    If I were design a minimalist shirt wardrobe, I would suggest one white FC shrit, one blue FC shirt (both broadcloth), a couple of white barrel cuff, then a dozen or so solid blue barell cuff, say six broadcloth, three linen-cotton, three chabray (or 4-4-4), or, if you have the cash, 5-5-5, which could get you through any given week's weather. Plus a few blue OCDBs. I also find a white OCBD (pinpoint) useful for weekend nights out.

    Those above do tend to be the types I wear the most though I enjoy having some stripes, checks, and some other colors.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2013
    5 people like this.
  9. mafoofan

    mafoofan Senior member Dubiously Honored

    Messages:
    20,795
    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2007
    

    The Japanese raped my people. I refuse to buy their blood-soaked goods--outside of electronics, cars, and certain snack foods.

    Just kidding. Well, not entirely. They really did rape my people. Still, I have been wanting to see Kamakura but haven't had a chance. I can easily imagine that the Japanese would be the ones to finally get the BD collar right. However, I do need to get spread-collared shirts, too. That's why I'm hoping Geneva can do it all.


    Gauntlet buttons are obstructive. They ruin the clean line of the gauntlet opening, get snagged easily, and are just one extra thing to fasten in the morning and fall off sooner or later. Hence, since they have no apparent function and provide no aesthetic benefit, I tend to associate them with very finicky dressers who believe dressing well means fastidiously concealing one's wrist flesh, or some such nonsense. They are bad and should be avoided.
     
    1 person likes this.
  10. YRR92

    YRR92 Senior member

    Messages:
    2,345
    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2012
    I've heard button-down collar with DB suit is against the rules.

    I don't know if it's a rules issue or not, I just find gingham has summery connotations for me. I've been wearing a red shirt that's similar to a gingham lately, and it hasn't bothered me. What's the Luciano Barbera line about wearing a white linen jacket on especially nasty winter days? I think of it as akin to that. I like checks and tattersalls, but that's because I like the plain tie / patterned shirt look about as much as I like the patterned tie / plain shirt. This is partially because most of my jackets are solids.

    unbelragazzo: No love for different widths of stripes? I like butcher, myself. I'm also a fan of purple stripes.
     
  11. unbelragazzo

    unbelragazzo Senior member Dubiously Honored

    Messages:
    8,355
    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2011
    Location:
    Washington, DC
    Is royal Oxford considered something of a substitute for poplin?
     
  12. Manton

    Manton Senior member Dubiously Honored

    Messages:
    41,568
    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2002
    Location:
    In Hiding
    You ought to try CEGO for BDs, I've been very happy, they look totally "authentic" and the price is fantastic. Looser fit that Geneva but I prefer that for BDs anyway.
     
  13. Manton

    Manton Senior member Dubiously Honored

    Messages:
    41,568
    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2002
    Location:
    In Hiding
    
    I view it is a fancy cloth. So, no.
     
  14. Eustace Tilley

    Eustace Tilley Senior member

    Messages:
    6,452
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2007
    Location:
    New York
    I don't care enough to give a detailed answer, for the same reason as edmorel, but I applaud your decision to go with link cuffs. All my non-BDs are link cuffs. To echo unbel's point, regular chain cufflinks are not ideal with link cuffs and snap links are a much better alternative. They are not made any longer, but they are available for cheap on ebay.
     
  15. mafoofan

    mafoofan Senior member Dubiously Honored

    Messages:
    20,795
    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2007
    

    Have you seen my watch? When barrel cuffs are cut large enough to accommodate it, they always look ridiculously loose. That's okay on something casual like an OCBD, but I don't like it on dressier shirts. And no, I'm not willing to do the Agnelli.

    As for always wearing cufflinks: I already do that. All my non-OCBDs have French cuffs. I can deal.


    Are you saying chambray is more warm or cold weather appropriate? I see it as being workable year-round. Anyway, I've never been very sensitive to shirting type when it comes to temperature. I wear regular cotton poplin in the summer all the time. Linen-cotton would be nice--but not a necessity for me.
     
  16. Manton

    Manton Senior member Dubiously Honored

    Messages:
    41,568
    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2002
    Location:
    In Hiding
    Personally, I don't like a gaping gauntlet. I think you can safely skip the guantlet button on BC (I don't have them on my BDs) but not on FC (or LC). The guantlet is simply too long and the gaping too pronounced.

    The buttons never catch (absurd) and I've never had one fall off.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2013
    2 people like this.
  17. unbelragazzo

    unbelragazzo Senior member Dubiously Honored

    Messages:
    8,355
    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2011
    Location:
    Washington, DC
    Poplin is kind of fancy in that it's very smooth finished. It's pretty much suits and CBD only, no? You don't think royal oxford is good with dark suits for CBD? Too shiny?
     
  18. Manton

    Manton Senior member Dubiously Honored

    Messages:
    41,568
    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2002
    Location:
    In Hiding
    Chambray wears warm for me so it's only for fall/winter. I get hot easily so I live in linen-cotton once the weather turns until it starts getting cool again.
     
  19. Manton

    Manton Senior member Dubiously Honored

    Messages:
    41,568
    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2002
    Location:
    In Hiding
    Royal is fine with dark suits, in fact that's probably all it's good for.
     
  20. mafoofan

    mafoofan Senior member Dubiously Honored

    Messages:
    20,795
    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2007
    

    My gauntlets don't gape. At least, not in a way that I'd care. It looks much more relaxed and streamlined without the button. To me, that equates with being more elegant. For what it's worth, Anna Matuozzo refuses to put them on her shirts.

    I used to get gauntlet buttons snagged all over the place when I wore shirts with them back in in college and law school. They'd bump up against my desk or laptop whenever I was taking notes. It's nothing catastrophic, but certainly an annoyance I can do without.

    All buttons are prone to falling off. I'm not saying it's definite that one will within a given shirt's lifetime, but using one less button is one less button to worry about.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2013

Share This Page

Styleforum is proudly sponsored by