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The OneShirt: A Phoenix from the Ashes [4/24/13 UPDATE: A SHIRTMAKER, AN ENGLISHMAN, CHAMBRAY, AND F

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by mafoofan, Mar 20, 2013.

  1. marcodalondra

    marcodalondra Senior member

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    True.

    However there has been recently a return to formal accessories for men in Italy and people are returning to cufflinks, tie bars etc, and both shops and shirtmaker will show you single cuffs (sometime known as falso gemello) when asked for example of shirt to wear with cufflinks. You would have to specifically ask for a "polsino doppio gemello" for a French Cuff type.
     


  2. CaymanS

    CaymanS Senior member

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    @ :foo:, your shirts from Anna were immaculate. Why switch up now? YOLO :nodding:
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2013


  3. mafoofan

    mafoofan THE FOO Dubiously Honored

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    Yes, this is a real concern I've been thinking about. I think the problem would be somewhat mitigated by rounding off the corners.


    My observations are similar to yours: linked cuffs are rare in Italy. Iammatt once noted that Anna Matuozzo told him it was a matter of professional status, so only doctors, lawyers, and the like wear French cuffs there. When I asked Mariano Rubinacci, he commented: "French cuffs are always elegant and I wear them all the time." Except, I know the latter part of what he said is blatantly not true. In fact, I've never seen him in French cuffs.


    I am plain as day about the extent of my experiences. If you come away thinking I am stating categorial, absolute truths, you are either prejudiced beyond hope or seriously reasoning impaired. What I am doing is stating absolute truths about my own experiences. My Riva shirts have frayed while my others have not. I explained my washing and ironing process. With that information, others are free to do as they like. You seem to believe you are protecting them from undue influence, when it appears you simply want to be the one doing the influencing. If not, I cannot fathom the purpose or character of your rabid argumentation over my expertise.

    When I first purchased Riva shirting, nobody here or on the other forums could offer input on its durability or longevity. At the time Iammatt was known to have a significant collection of shirts made of Riva fabric, but said he couldn't really comment because he did not wear them regularly enough to judge. Others seemed to treat their Riva shirts as precious one-offs.

    So, as far as I'm concerned, there is a huge void when it comes to real-life experience with Riva shirting. Don't blame me because the data point I'm offering happens to stand out as one of the only ones.


    There are a handful of people, such as yourself, hell-bent on characterizing me in ridiculous ways to discredit me. I never said Riva was the best shirting ever. Others did, and I was intrigued. I knew it could only be tried through an Italian shirtmaker, so when I first went to Naples, I was intent on trying it. A similar thought process guided me to Anna Matuozzo. Other credible people raved about her workmanship. So I gave her a try. Her service and initial product quality won me over. But then, just as my Riva shirting proved temperamental, so did she.

    That is me being completely honest. I hate feeling like I've been tricked or taken advantage of, and it is somewhat embarrassing to reveal it to the universe. You'd think I'd get some credit for that, not this bullshit character posturing.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2013


  4. Slewfoot

    Slewfoot Senior member

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    Perhaps this has all been discussed in this thread, but a Chambray light blue sounds great. I would do both a buttondown and spread personally. I'm not a fan of cuff links so I'd just do regular cuffs.

    While Foo may gasp in horror, it might be worth it for him to try Peter Lee in HK for buttondown collars. I have posted lots of photos with them in use if you need a photo reference. You could send him one of your old shirts for him to copy the fit and you can see how the collar comes out.

    Just some thoughts. And I agree, it's hard NOT to wear solid blue shirts when I am wearing a sportcoat or suit.
     


  5. mafoofan

    mafoofan THE FOO Dubiously Honored

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    Can't tell if you're joking, but the short answer is because I was bamboozled.


    I've thought about splitting the order into half button-down and half spread, but knowing myself, I'd ultimately prefer to commit to one or the other. I'll dig around for your Peter Lee buttondowns, but unless he regularly travels to New York, I don't think he'll be an option for me. Unless I'm getting some kind of regionally specific quality, I'm not going to stray from local sources.

    Thank you for acknowledging that there is nothing strange about wanting lots of solid blue shirts. I feel like I'm losing my mind in this thread.
     


  6. Manton

    Manton RINO Dubiously Honored

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    Nothing at all strange about wanting lots of solid blue, I have lots and would always recommend that to others. I do, however, very much enjoy varying the fabric and shade. I like broadcloth, poplin, end-on-end, twill, chambray, oxford, pinpoint, linen and linen-cotton. I also like seasonality. And I like being able to choose between FC and BC. And between SC and BD.

    Re: collars, many authors say to find a collar or two that works for you and stick with them. I have tried four over the years: BD, extreme cutaway, medium spread, and tab. Only the BD and medium spread are left. They are fundamentally different enough that I get a lot of use out of both and would not want to do without either. The others, though, I never think about any more.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2013


  7. Mute

    Mute Senior member

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    Now you see. That's a reasonable statement. I'll admit that about 75% of my shirts fall into this category, but some variety is good for the soul. Who dares, wins.
     


  8. mafoofan

    mafoofan THE FOO Dubiously Honored

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    I guess I've just never found much in the seasonality of shirting. Sure, there are certain breeds like linen blends that are really only appropriate for the spring and summer, and cotton-wool mixes that are only good for the fall and winter, but most 100% cotton shirting in non-fancy weaves is always appropriate. Sure, a linen shirt might be marginally cooler wearing than a cotton poplin one, but the difference is so small relative to the sort of jacket one is wearing that I don't care to think of it, and the poplin is perfectly correct for warmer seasons.

    That said, if my Riva shirts had not died on me, I'd probably be branching into linen. I do like having things with strong seasonal identities. In shirting, I just don't think it's an aesthetic or functional necessity, as in suiting and jacketing.


    You have the fortune of a normal head. I bet you could look good in most collars. Not me.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2013


  9. Manton

    Manton RINO Dubiously Honored

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    I am super sensetive to heat so any marginal help I get from linen or LC is worth it in summer. But beyond that I like the LOOK of seasonality.
     


  10. mafoofan

    mafoofan THE FOO Dubiously Honored

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    Yes, true. But what is more daring? Committing to a bold, carefully considered strategy, or trying a bit of everything in a haphazard manner? The latter is the common practice amongst men when it comes to clothes, and most men are not commendable for their style. That should be fairly instructive.
     


  11. emptym

    emptym Moderator Moderator

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    Before this thread exploded, I was going to suggest Peter Lee, Luxire, or Cego. All three have made pretty much perfect BDs for me. Carl does have the advantage for you of being local. But I've never tried Geneva, and since you have, I agree it's probably best for you to try them first.
     


  12. bertie

    bertie Senior member

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    As I understand it your reasoning is:
    1. pick the safest most versatile colour for dress shirts
    2. pick the shirt style that most pleases your aesthetic and practical requirements
    3. use that shirt in most situations

    While that is a strategy - it is not bold. It is in fact the safest possible strategy. It is the "uniform" strategy. Not saying that's bad and even agree with you that it could save many people from sartorial ruin except for the reliance on your personal aesthetic in choosing the shirt style when that aesthetic veers into the eccentric. I would even suggest that it gets you to looking well dressed in many cases. The fact that is is a uniform though means you can not exceed well dressed.
     


  13. CaymanS

    CaymanS Senior member

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    @ :foo:, not joking at all. All of the shirts from your pattern matching post on TITC are from Anna, correct? Love them.

    Isn't the answer to apply your customary form of determination and locate the most hard-wearing yet comfortable cloth you can find and have her work up some shirts from that?
     


  14. mafoofan

    mafoofan THE FOO Dubiously Honored

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    First of all, your use of the word "safest" is pejorative. I think blue is, overall, the best shirt color. To whatever extent that makes it "safe" is a completely ancillary consideration and symptomatic of it being the "best." I think it takes taste, education, talent, discipline, etc., to think clearly about aesthetics. The reason why most shy away from what is "safe" has nothing to do with having a courageous spirit. It's actually a combination of changeability and weak self-confidence. True style is enduring, not temperamental. It is about the choices we make and how we make them, not avoiding them altogether. If you ever want to be stylish, and you are a man capable of it, then you will doubtlessly wind up with your own "uniform." This has been true of all the greats. The proof is in the fact each had a coherent, recognizable manner of dressing.

    Second, I'm very happy with how I dress and personally feel I "exceed well-dressed." But that's just me.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2013


  15. archibaldleach

    archibaldleach Senior member

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    I think the extreme nature of it does make it somewhat bold, moreso than say wearing all light blue shirts but with different patterns (it sounds like he will have a couple patterned shirts but could easily wear the OneShirt five days in a row too). You have to be pretty determined and confident to wear the same exact shirt almost every day and buy enough of them to make this possible.
     


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