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The Official Wine Thread

Piobaire

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I LOL'ed.
 

Omega Male

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Couple of local products while driving South for a few days. Second was the better. First time in Santa Barbara for this Limey, it’s nice.

845349D5-7038-46D9-B71D-78E7F60E15FA.jpeg

B98DF09A-96D1-41C8-919F-91D9BF13FD16.jpeg
 

Omega Male

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And back home again getting high on my own supply. We drove through Paso Robles on the way back but, with pissy teens in the car, thought it best to just press on to the next In-N-Out stop. (Which was in Gilroy and, oddly, the people in front of and behind us in line were speaking Italian and German respectively. New agri-tourism hotspot detected.)

IMG_2730.jpg
 

Colonel Mustard

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You should lay down something like a case of Muga Prado Enea Gran Reserva for that experiment. I've had many a bottle of the Tondonia.
Interesting. I am at the beginning of my wine journey, so am very much open to suggestions - although this will be a casual interest and funds will be somewhat limited as a result.

What makes you say that the Muga Prado Enea Gran Reserva would be better for laying down? Is it that it is comparatively young and the difference will be more profound? It seems, to me at least, to represent poor value (twice the price) for a two year aged Gran Reserva (I believe this is the legal bare minimum?) over the six year Tondonia Reserva.

The traditional approach of López de Heredia is very appealing to me and I really enjoyed the 2006 Reserva. I am currently looking to buy a Tondonia Gran Reserva and some Bosconia Reservas for laying down.
 

Piobaire

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Interesting. I am at the beginning of my wine journey, so am very much open to suggestions - although this will be a casual interest and funds will be somewhat limited as a result.

What makes you say that the Muga Prado Enea Gran Reserva would be better for laying down? Is it that it is comparatively young and the difference will be more profound? It seems, to me at least, to represent poor value (twice the price) for a two year aged Gran Reserva (I believe this is the legal bare minimum?) over the six year Tondonia Reserva.

The traditional approach of López de Heredia is very appealing to me and I really enjoyed the 2006 Reserva. I am currently looking to buy a Tondonia Gran Reserva and some Bosconia Reservas for laying down.
So a Gran Reserva by law must have two years minimum in oak and a total of five years age before being released. A Reserva only requires one year in oak and three years total age prior to release.

Muga is also a very classic bodega in regards to wine making. If you feel it is a poor value simply based on pricing I shall withdraw my recommendation. I'm not sure what you mean by it's "very young" as library vintages are easily available.
 

Omega Male

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The 2010 is by consensus one of the best Prado Eneas in recent memory and when compared against other truly top-tier wines from France or Italy it's certainly a relative value at under $70.
 

Colonel Mustard

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So a Gran Reserva by law must have two years minimum in oak and a total of five years age before being released. A Reserva only requires one year in oak and three years total age prior to release.

Muga is also a very classic bodega in regards to wine making. If you feel it is a poor value simply based on pricing I shall withdraw my recommendation. I'm not sure what you mean by it's "very young" as library vintages are easily available.
I was incorrect - the Muga Gran Reserva is aged three years in the barrel, not two years as I said earlier, however, my (genuine) question still remains as to why you feel it poses a better prospect for aging than the Tondonia. When you recommended the Muga I looked on Berry Bros' website with a view to buying a few bottles, but was surprised at Luis Gutiérrez's write up on there.

https://www.bbr.com/products-40995-2009-prado-enea-gran-reserva-bodegas-muga-rioja

"This is still a baby and I know Winemaker Jorge Muga would like to keep it in bottle for longer before selling it, but the commercial pressure is tremendous, as there has been no wine since 2006". He then goes on to say "The wine feels even younger on the palate, and it still needs to develop some further complexity and the silky texture for which this wine is famous".

As I'm sure you will appreciate this indicates a young wine and is was what led me to assume (seemingly incorrectly) that this may have been one of your reasons for recommending it for laying down. The fact that the winemaker bends to commercial pressure and appears to release the wine earlier than he feels ideal appears to be in stark contrast to López de Heredia's approach.

In my defence, I didn't say "very young" I said "comparatively young", which compared to the Tondonia (three years in the barrel against six years in the barrel) it is.

I'm not suggesting age is the be all and end all, but the value I was referring to was in respect of the price vs age - as they are the only two quantifiable measures I could use (what with taste being subjective and the reason for my question).
 

reidd

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Suffice to say that Muga Grand Reserva and Vina Tondonia are both wines capable of ageing effortlessly for decades. Value proposition is in the eye of the beholder but as a category, Rioja is generally good value.. Just get some of both, chuck them in your cellar, visit them both in a few years and let us know how it goes.
 

Omega Male

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Liking this a lot now but am putting the other five away for a bit later. Quality.

IMG_2733.jpg
 

Piobaire

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I was incorrect - the Muga Gran Reserva is aged three years in the barrel, not two years as I said earlier, however, my (genuine) question still remains as to why you feel it poses a better prospect for aging than the Tondonia. When you recommended the Muga I looked on Berry Bros' website with a view to buying a few bottles, but was surprised at Luis Gutiérrez's write up on there.

https://www.bbr.com/products-40995-2009-prado-enea-gran-reserva-bodegas-muga-rioja

"This is still a baby and I know Winemaker Jorge Muga would like to keep it in bottle for longer before selling it, but the commercial pressure is tremendous, as there has been no wine since 2006". He then goes on to say "The wine feels even younger on the palate, and it still needs to develop some further complexity and the silky texture for which this wine is famous".

As I'm sure you will appreciate this indicates a young wine and is was what led me to assume (seemingly incorrectly) that this may have been one of your reasons for recommending it for laying down. The fact that the winemaker bends to commercial pressure and appears to release the wine earlier than he feels ideal appears to be in stark contrast to López de Heredia's approach.

In my defence, I didn't say "very young" I said "comparatively young", which compared to the Tondonia (three years in the barrel against six years in the barrel) it is.

I'm not suggesting age is the be all and end all, but the value I was referring to was in respect of the price vs age - as they are the only two quantifiable measures I could use (what with taste being subjective and the reason for my question).
As I said I withdraw my comment and think you should stick with your plan.
 

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