The Official Wine Thread

[coolpapa]



CdP that can take a few years (20 or so) other than Beaucastel, and are somewhat reasonable?

 

I would also seek out Pegau. 90 95,99, are all stellar. Bonneau Cuvee' Celestins is also excellent in the years it is made, though it is spendier than VT, Beaucastel, et al.

 

[Piobaire]



I would also seek out Pegau. 90 95,99, are all stellar. Bonneau Cuvee' Celestins is also excellent in the years it is made, though it is spendier than VT, Beaucastel, et al.

I was thinking of putting that one up too but I think that falls victim to the "international style" more, no? Not that I'm against that per se.

 

[itsstillmatt]



I was thinking of putting that one up too but I think that falls victim to the "international style" more, no? Not that I'm against that per se.

Not in those years, though. CdP was kind of a backward place up until recently.

 

[coolpapa]



I was thinking of putting that one up too but I think that falls victim to the "international style" more, no? Not that I'm against that per se.

Pegau? No, it's traditional, or at least the Cuvee' Reserve was when I was buying it. Haven't any recent vintages. I think the last one I had was 03, which seemed international in style because it was an extraordinarily hot and ripe year. The higher end bottlings, Capo and Laurence are more heavily oaked and are more international in style and I don't care for them for that reason, and because they are stupid expensive.

 

[Piobaire]

I had a Cuvee Reserve, 02, and if I remember right I'm going to put it down under the "International Style" column. Which is not to say I did not like it...

 

[coolpapa]



I had a Cuvee Reserve, 02, and if I remember right I'm going to put it down under the "International Style" column. Which is not to say I did not like it...

02 Was a terrible year, so I wouldn't judge based on that one experience. In fact, I'd skip 02 and 03 in terms of forming opinions, both are atypical.

 

[itsstillmatt]



I had a Cuvee Reserve, 02, and if I remember right I'm going to put it down under the "International Style" column. Which is not to say I did not like it...

'02 was literally the worst vintage of 40 in CdP, so I am not sure it is a great benchmark. They don't age in new oak at all for that wine, so it is probably on the traditional side, but with global warming the marginal effects in hot areas has been to increase alcohol levels to degrees that make the wine seem less traditional, no matter what the vinification and aging. It has made CdP very popular, though.

 

[Piobaire]



02 Was a terrible year, so I wouldn't judge based on that one experience. In fact, I'd skip 02 and 03 in terms of forming opinions, both are atypical.

Good to know. I hope to try some from the 90s one day.

 

[edmorel]

I've been sick for about 4 months with this flu and have not had a drink in that time. This weekend was feeling better and opened up a few bottles as I was cooking/eating etc. Also had some Taittenger champs which a friend gives me a couple of bottles of each year. I liked everything a lot, did the reisling with some seafood, the CdP with a steak, the champs with some ribs. The sauternes was with whatever I was snacking on during the day. I now have a vicious stomach virus though

 

[b1os]

The Grüner Veltliners were fine. I remember the Domäne Wachaus to be superior though. Tina Pfaffmann's Riesling N°9 is on the acidic side. It's alright for 6€. I'm not the biggest fan (a much more solid Riesling on the acidic side is Markus Schneider's Riesling).

Michele Chiarlo's Barbera d'Asti Le Orme, see above. His La Court Nizza is pretty good. Not sure whether it's really that much superior to Le Orme at four times the price. The 15-year-old Barbera d'Alba from last week was better. The CdP is mediocre.

 

[Huntsman]

Hmmm, this has all been very interesting.

Pegau and Celestins are un-findable near me. For nearly the same price point, I can get a pair of '99 VT's, a pair of '95 VT's or a mag of '99 Beaucastel. Thoughts? Also, there's a Ch. called Rayas that fetches unreal prices for CdP. What is so special about them?

New International Style? Oak bombs like a Cali Cab? I've had more Mont-Redon than any otehr CdP -- is this an exemplar of the new style?

~ H

 

[itsstillmatt]

The '95 VT is better than the '99 in my experience, and it is in its prime right now. I don't drink enough Beaucastel to know the wine well, though I generally like their wines a lot.

 

[patrickBOOTH]



I've been sick for about 4 months with this flu and have not had a drink in that time. This weekend was feeling better and opened up a few bottles as I was cooking/eating etc. Also had some Taittenger champs which a friend gives me a couple of bottles of each year. I liked everything a lot, did the reisling with some seafood, the CdP with a steak, the champs with some ribs. The sauternes was with whatever I was snacking on during the day. I now have a vicious stomach virus though

How was the Chateauneuf -de-pape? It is my neighbor's favorite wine. I see them in the recycling all of the time.

 

[coolpapa]



Hmmm, this has all been very interesting.

Pegau and Celestins are un-findable near me. For nearly the same price point, I can get a pair of '99 VT's, a pair of '95 VT's or a mag of '99 Beaucastel. Thoughts? Also, there's a Ch. called Rayas that fetches unreal prices for CdP. What is so special about them?

New International Style? Oak bombs like a Cali Cab? I've had more Mont-Redon than any otehr CdP -- is this an exemplar of the new style?

~ H

I believe Rayas was the first, or one of the first to garner super high scores from Parker, which began to raise the profile of CdP with "ordinary" wine drinkers. Because of that it has maintained an image apart from most CdP. That said, I'm not sure I have ever even tried it, so I don't know in what style it is made. All the wines you've identified as being available are good and you'll likely be happy with them. I agree with Matt re: 95 vs 99 for the VT. I have some 99 Beaucastel, but I haven't had it in a while, so I'm not sure where it is right now in its development. Beaucastel is pretty reliable, and 99 is an underrated vintage sandwiched between to high profile vintages, so it doesn't get discussed much.

 

[Slewfoot]

For CDP my preference is always with Clos des Papes and Rayas.