At the end of the day, that's what they're gonna be good for. And in the large scheme, there is far better overall quality out there. I was only coming from a place that I thrifted a pair of designer denim that in no way resembled standard designer denim. I was impressed, I shared this with the thread. Debate ensued I think mainly over mix messages/misunderstanding of where I was coming from. But all is well, I have a great deal of respect for @barrelntrigger and I think he knows that. But that's just where it stemmed from, didn't mean to highjack, so my apologies everyone.