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JFWR

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I decided to order saddle soap before giving it a shot, so it has not happened yet. I'll try and post again when I do.

Good thing is: Saddle soap is good for shoes in general, so you will be able to use it for other purposes.
 

DapperAndy

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Good thing is: Saddle soap is good for shoes in general, so you will be able to use it for other purposes.
It's not though. Definitely read the archives of this very thread talking about how the glycerine in saddle soap can block the pores of your leather. And, saddle soap is pH basic. Leather comes out of the tannery acidic. If you consistently use basic products on it, then it will leech all of the oils, waxes, and dyes that went into it during the tanning process.

If you use saddle soap for cleaning, then definitely use an acidic cleaner afterwards to restore the pH balance, and clean the glycerine from the leather pores.
 

JFWR

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It's not though. Definitely read the archives of this very thread talking about how the glycerine in saddle soap can block the pores of your leather. And, saddle soap is pH basic. Leather comes out of the tannery acidic. If you consistently use basic products on it, then it will leech all of the oils, waxes, and dyes that went into it during the tanning process.

If you use saddle soap for cleaning, then definitely use an acidic cleaner afterwards to restore the pH balance, and clean the glycerine from the leather pores.

I'm gonna have to disagree with you here, Andy.

Saddle soap has a proven track record of decades of use by shoe care professionals. I am not suggesting by any means to use it as your EXCLUSIVE product on your shoe, but it has a place for good cleaning of leather outers and inners when faced with significant dirt or stains. It is to be used when shoes need a pretty significant cleaning.

Of course, a leather conditioner should be used afterwards, and the shoes should be polished with cream and wax as necessary, but what you have here is a case of the leather having a large blood stain. Saddle soap is more mild than most other soap, is suited for leather, and is likely to clean some if not all of he stain.

It also is a good general purpose cleaner for leather shoes whenever they need a good cleanse and if used with other products.
 

Reiver

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I'm gonna have to disagree with you here, Andy.

Saddle soap has a proven track record of decades of use by shoe care professionals. I am not suggesting by any means to use it as your EXCLUSIVE product on your shoe, but it has a place for good cleaning of leather outers and inners when faced with significant dirt or stains. It is to be used when shoes need a pretty significant cleaning.

Of course, a leather conditioner should be used afterwards, and the shoes should be polished with cream and wax as necessary, but what you have here is a case of the leather having a large blood stain. Saddle soap is more mild than most other soap, is suited for leather, and is likely to clean some if not all of he stain.

It also is a good general purpose cleaner for leather shoes whenever they need a good cleanse and if used with other products.

I agree that it should only be used very occasionally. I have never used it at all on most of my shoes but recently used it on a 4 year old pair of red wings for the 1st time as a deep clean.

Works a treat as a stage in restoring old neglected shoes.

When I have used it, I always give them a good condition afterwards.
 

DapperAndy

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I'm gonna have to disagree with you here, Andy.

Saddle soap has a proven track record of decades of use by shoe care professionals. I am not suggesting by any means to use it as your EXCLUSIVE product on your shoe, but it has a place for good cleaning of leather outers and inners when faced with significant dirt or stains. It is to be used when shoes need a pretty significant cleaning.

Of course, a leather conditioner should be used afterwards, and the shoes should be polished with cream and wax as necessary, but what you have here is a case of the leather having a large blood stain. Saddle soap is more mild than most other soap, is suited for leather, and is likely to clean some if not all of he stain.

It also is a good general purpose cleaner for leather shoes whenever they need a good cleanse and if used with other products.
I never said it doesn’t clean effectively or hasn’t been used traditionally. It does and it has. But you said it’s good for your leather. It’s not.

Read the years of discussions between @patrickBOOTH @DWFII and @glenjay in the early days of this exact thread before trying to astute something that has been established prior to-the-contrary.

Glycerine is bad for leather, pH basic products are bad for leather. Explain to me how saddle soap is good for leather if you’re trying to re-open this.
 

DWFII

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As a cleaner saddle soap can be effective...if rinsed off the shoe entirely. The tallow based formulation will collect dirt which will aid in cracking in the creases.

And of course the acidity or alkalinity in glycerine or any soap is not good for leather.

Lexol makes a cleaner specifically for leather--LexolpH. Comes in an orange bottle. It is ph neutral.

Also, AFAIK, Johnson & Johnson's No More Tears is still a ph balanced shampoo that works fine for cleaning leather.
 

DapperAndy

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Glycerine isn't bad for leather. The alkalinity is however.
My understanding is that glycerine needs to be removed from the pores before adding polishes, as it risks creating an impermeable barrier to proper evaporation. Essentially similar to the effect silicone has. Is this incorrect?
 

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In my research years ago, I came across this interview with Dr. Don Jenkins and Phil Meyers from Summit Industries regarding Saddle Soap, and the reason why it is bad for leather (not just the alkalinity, but the behavioral aspect of using it): http://lib.store.yahoo.net/lib/hawgwash/Lexol.html
"Q. What about saddle soap?
A. In the late 1800's the final tanning of leather required the talents of a "currier". This craftsman took the tanned but stiff hide and worked oils into it until the desired flexibility was obtained. This process is called fatliquoring. The fatliquor of choice was an emulsion of oil in soap. This "saddle soap" was not used as a cleaner. It was a softening conditioner.

In fact, saddle soap is a very poor cleaner. It must first dissolve its own oils, limiting its capacity to dissolve dirt and oils in the leather. Saddle soap is also inherently alkaline but alkalinity is damaging to leather. Another problem arises during application. Most saddle soaps instruct the user to work the lather into the leather. Since loosened dirt is suspended in the lather, it is pushed back into the leather's pores.

Saddle soaps have long been replaced in tanneries by modern emulsions which penetrate, soften and condition with greater ease and stability. The popular myth of saddle soap as a cleaner however persists as modern folklore."
Now, while the interviewers may have an economic incentive to highlight certain aspects over others, I do not believe this to be an untrue assertion. My paraphrasing about the glycerine being bad, was from previous threads in this forum regarding that specific thing needing to be "washed out" before proceeding with any other form of leather care, and along with Glen's blog, and other research. So I was paraphrasing.
 

patrickBOOTH

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My understanding is that glycerine needs to be removed from the pores before adding polishes, as it risks creating an impermeable barrier to proper evaporation. Essentially similar to the effect silicone has. Is this incorrect?

Sounds a bit wrong-headed if you ask me. Glycerine is a humectant and attracts moisture. Absolutely nothing wrong with that if the leather isn't already in an overly humid environment where mold can take over. The idea that silicones are bad for leather is a bit overplayed, especially when it comes to leather with a topcoat on it, which is the large majority of them. A lot of it has to do with marketing, imo. If silicone is bad for leather, so is wax. They are both occlusive. Oil is occlusive as well and also has the drawdown of going rancid. Silicone in similar viscosities to oils won't. I think the negative press silicone gets isn't so much because it is silicone, but rather because overuse it will continue to build on the leather. This isn't any different than wax. I think to take care of leather you should largely leave it alone, keep it clean by brushing and condition with an emulsified conditioner without wax. Wax attracts a lot of dust and debris. You want something that penetrates into the hide as much as possible and leaves a dry, non-tacky surface. There are many good ones out there that do this if used as directed, Bick 4, Lexol, etc.
 

DapperAndy

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Sounds a bit wrong-headed if you ask me. Glycerine is a humectant and attracts moisture. Absolutely nothing wrong with that if the leather isn't already in an overly humid environment where mold can take over. The idea that silicones are bad for leather is a bit overplayed, especially when it comes to leather with a topcoat on it, which is the large majority of them. A lot of it has to do with marketing, imo. If silicone is bad for leather, so is wax. They are both occlusive. Oil is occlusive as well and also has the drawdown of going rancid. Silicone in similar viscosities to oils won't. I think the negative press silicone gets isn't so much because it is silicone, but rather because overuse it will continue to build on the leather. This isn't any different than wax. I think to take care of leather you should largely leave it alone, keep it clean by brushing and condition with an emulsified conditioner without wax. Wax attracts a lot of dust and debris. You want something that penetrates into the hide as much as possible and leaves a dry, non-tacky surface. There are many good ones out there that do this if used as directed, Bick 4, Lexol, etc.
I paraphrased quite obtusely and tried to show my reasoning in the follow-up post. I am a bit quick with the explanation, as this thread has deteriorated in the level of discourse that it once had. But, it seemed quite clear from both the 2013 archives of this thread, Glenjay's blog, and outside research into the chemistry of it, that 1) it's not "good for your leather"; and 2) there are better things for your leather.

The aforementioned statement that it was "good for your leather" was the statement I had contention with. My follow-up on glycerine was a paraphrase from Glen's blog:
Cleaning with leather cleaner alone works a little differently than cleaning with a cleaner/conditioner combination. This is mainly due to the difference in cleaning agent used. Leather cleaners, like saddle soap, are glycerin (soap) based, while the cleaner/conditioners are solvent based.

The basis of the cleaning agent determines how the cleaner should be used. When using glycerin based cleaners you want to rub the cleaner into the wax with warm water to help dissolve the wax, so that the cleaner and the wax can then be “washed” off along with the dirt trapped in the wax layers that are removed.

With glycerin based cleaners you do not want any of the glycerin left on or in the shoe leather as it will continue to dry out the leather over time. For this reason, when using a glycerin based cleaner you want to rub the cleaner into the shoe gently with a sea sponge, but hard enough to raise a slight foam, then wipe the foam off with a clean sponge (rinse out the sponge in clean warm water). I would suggest wiping the shoe off a couple of times to make sure the glycerin is gone.

That's my reasoning, and has been my understanding behind cleaners for quite a few years. I will consider your statements about comparative ingredients and their chemistry-effects, but I still don't see how Saddle Soap is "good for your leather".
 

CWV

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I paraphrased quite obtusely and tried to show my reasoning in the follow-up post. I am a bit quick with the explanation, as this thread has deteriorated in the level of discourse that it once had. But, it seemed quite clear from both the 2013 archives of this thread, Glenjay's blog, and outside research into the chemistry of it, that 1) it's not "good for your leather"; and 2) there are better things for your leather.

The aforementioned statement that it was "good for your leather" was the statement I had contention with. My follow-up on glycerine was a paraphrase from Glen's blog:


That's my reasoning, and has been my understanding behind cleaners for quite a few years. I will consider your statements about comparative ingredients and their chemistry-effects, but I still don't see how Saddle Soap is "good for your leather".
And what is the way of using solvent based cleaners?
 

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